Big Stick
Any of you goodly geeks make it to Dragon Con this year? If you’ve never been, you’ve gotta go. It’s a subculture all its own, complete with cults, its own TV channel, and more inside jokes than you can shake a deceased trashcan at. But the reason I bring it up today is this little weirdo. Every year as the costume contest judges deliberate, the fans grow restless. Impatience festers. Eager to find out who’s won best in show at the masquerade, the audience begins their chant.
WE WANT THE DUCK! WE WANT THE DUCK!
And not wishing to start a riot, the con organizers wisely give the people what they want. As the Warner Brothers logo comes up and the opening notes of “Merry-Go-Round Broke Down” begin to play, the whole of the Hyatt Regency Centennial Ballroom vibrates to the full-throated roar of 1,500 nerds: “Duck Dodgers in the 24½th Century!”
If you’ve never seen the cartoon, you’ll want to hit that link. It’s a sci-fi comedy classic. But for our purposes, it’s also useful as an object lesson in intimidation.
You see, Marvin the Martian is no one’s idea of intimidating. Dude’s a nebbish little pushover with a wimpy voice and a puny physique. But when he pulls out the (comically) big guns, he’s suddenly worth taking seriously.
Any D&D player who’s ever piloted a big dumb guy has come up against a weirdly similar scenario. With biceps cranked to 11 and a Charisma modifier hovering at -2, they couldn’t get lunch money from a third grader, much less scare intel out of a captured goblin.
As it happens, we’ve touched on exactly this scenario back in “Intimi-Beef.” But if you happen to game at one of those tables where your GM is unwilling to freely substitute Strength for Charisma in matters of Intimidation, you’ll have to come up with justification for your rules-bending. You’ll have to do like Marvin (or Artificer in today’s comic), and give your enemies a reason to fear you.
Here’s what I propose for today’s discussion. Pick any skill from any game system other than Intimidation. Tell us how you’d use it to intimidate an NPC. Will you dazzle them with horsemanship? Use your fat Fort save to quaff poison without breaking a sweat? Or perhaps you’ll pull a Tim and make with the pyrotechnics? Most creative response gets +38,490 XP.
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Use Diplomacy to tell them all about the powerful friends you have, and how unpleasant those friends could make their life.
I’ve always like that approach. “No, I’m not threatening you. Just offering some potentially life-changing information… completely free of charge”.
Look, I’m not trying to intimidate the guy. I’m trying to explain to him how Urgthash the Kneecapper will cap his knees if he doesn’t do us this little favor.
I feel like using Diplomacy the intended way would accomplish most things you’d use Intimidate for.
And if you’re gonna use a social skill to mimic Intimidate, pick Bluff. It’s funnier to trick someone into thinking you’re scary than to give them an offer they can’t refuse.
Well yes, but that wasn’t the question. And using Bluff would have been the easy option.
Perform: Dance. Serve your enemy to oblivion.
Had a buddy play a Cleric “of the dance.” When they got to the goblin camp, they discovered the gobbos had a boombox and flat of cardboard, and were in the midst of a breakdance battle. I’ve never seen a happier gamer.
Sephiroth challenges you to a dance off.
Sephiroth’s entire gang shows up with a boombox.
Sephiroth equips his breakdance materia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsxxnSOg554
(If it wasn’t clear, you lost the dance off.)
Well, you know what they say: any sufficiently scary illusion is functionally indistinguishable from the real thing.
Until they make the save, then you have a problem.
Ah, but they don’t get a save unless they interact with the illusion first (at least in 3.PF)! So long as they’re too scared to try and take a swipe at that totally real ancient red dragon, you’re in the clear.
Cleric? Is that you?
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/tomes-of-the-ancients
If they made their saving throw, it clearly wasn’t scary enough. You know how B-horror is frequently turned into comedy by fake-looking special effects? Same idea.
Use History to list the most gruesome torture methods ever performed.
If you happen to fail the check: “I’d like to see you try! How would you even get a giant bronze bull statue down here?”
Medicine: Explain, in exhaustive detail, exactly how you are going to dismantle them, piece by piece, while keeping them alive and aware the entire time unless they give you what you want.
Insight: Deduce, Sherlock Holmes style, every dirty secret they possess through simple conversation and observation. Then blackmail the hell out of them.
Torture is a skill separate from Intimidate in warhammer fantasy roleplay, just sayin’
Consume alcohol is also a warhammer fantasy skill, impress with superhuman alcohol tolerance by drinking everyone under the table.
Religion: Put the fear of God into them. Explain exactly how their life is sinful and they’re going to The Bad Place. Then explain exactly what will happen to them when they get there. Be sure to cite sources. Works best in a setting where the gods are provably real.
Just watched Morbius over the weekend. I believe the medicine thing is his strat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw2d-Dvi7Ts&t=69s
I was thinking a more medically accurate “to the pain” speech, but that works too
It’s been a running thing in my family: Never piss off a doctor, they know *exactly* how to make you hurt. A lot.
I’ll never forget the doctor PC in my firefly game.
While boarding a reaver ship: “Where do they even get all the human skin for the interior decorating?”
Doctor: “You’re right. You couldn’t get nearly enough from conventional harvesting. It would be smarter to keep your victims alive. Let them heal and regrow their skins, then harvest again. You wind up with a sustainable skin farm.”
He stopped when he realized everyone was staring at him in horror. The phrase “sustainable skin farm” is in the running to become our next group t-shirt.
You’d have to remove small pieces at a time to avoid killing the victim. You’d end up having to make skin patchworks. I don’t know if that makes it more or less horrifying.
A sort of skin quilting bee!
Arcana. Any wizard who can’t absolutely terrify someone with nothing but cantrips isn’t worthy of the title… though bonus points if you can do it solely with illusion.
BILBO BAGGINS…!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcASKPX1Ot8
Intimidation works best when you can demonstrate what you mean. Animal handling (or driving in modern settings) for quartering, you tie some one to four bikes and have them rev their engines and I guar… am pretty sure that the other person spills their gut, figuratively to avoid the literal one.
Anything thta relates to rope, tie one end to really heavy rock and the other to testies and all men will open up. For women doesn’t work as well, trying to figure something thta doesn’t put me in any SO list.
History, I will speak yourvears out over minute details of past untill your ears bleed, or in some cases facts alone are enough to make it happen(think of the mouthbreathers who scream nazi propaganda the moment soviets are made look “bad”).
Martial arts, quess who just became punchin bag, oh yeah my style is Praying Mantis, you will recieve a lot if kicks to groin. Also works for ranged skills, extra points for hunting practice by givibg the target false hope for survival.
Performance skills/talents, KARAOKE baby!
BattleTech everything is intimidation in that warcrime simulator.
Cooking, Time to test if humans taste like veal or bacon… I’m geting hungry for some reason.
And… why are you looking at me like that?
> Intimidation works best when you can demonstrate what you mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPRlHwwVIug&t=26s
I once played in a Pathfinder game where i regularly used my Profession: Art Critic (I don´t remember the exact term we used for it, but art critic is close enough) to utterly tear people apart for their bad art and fashion choices.
I gather you were playing a Bard.
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/diss
A very dandy wizard, actually. My main goal with it was finding and identifying magical art objects and historical artifacts. Being able to go full mean girl, was just a bonus.
Played a mage once who had a large monitor lizard as a familiar..
Told the captured evil henchman:
“Tell us where your boss is or I’ll tell him you taste like chocolate”
Come on bro… Don’t make me google the phrase “can monitor lizards eat chocolate?” I don’t have the time to go down this rabbit hole.
As for using another skill for intimidation, I had a Hobgoblin Ranger once (we did play the odd ‘monster party’) who had leftover skill points and threw them into cooking since that might come in handy when living in the wilderness.
Same sort of ‘captured henchman’ scenario, my Ranger just kept looking at him out of the corner of his eye as he started a fire, built a spit and then rolled a very high skill check to mix up a particularly robust, but not too spicy, marinade and quietly started painting it on said henchman.
The best part was that not only did the party get the information they wanted, they were going to eat him regardless, and it was a genuine skill check 🙂
Unlike the time my Barbarian grabbed a kobold by the throat, hoisted him up and demanded ‘answers’…first the kobold peed himself then had a heart attack from fear and died…GM’s can play that game too 😉
It’s scary how many gamers go for the “wandering chef” adventurer, out on the land looking for new and exotic ingredients. All us nerds out here sharing a single brain cell, lol.
I’m with Jaeger (above) and Mal Reynolds on this one.
While the party usually relied on a CG cleric of a religion that saw “punch-healing” and other modes of torture as totally within the bounds of his alignment, in one mission the healer was busy tending to the intended assassination victim they had just saved.
The rogue of the party cornered two assassins on the rooftop of the castle, succeeded at a Bluff check to move closer, then used Bull Rush and grappling rules to help Mook #1 fail his first flying lesson. After watching his partner take a 4-story nosedive, Mook #2 was very cooperative and copped to every bad deed he’d committed since childhood, with as many details on their employer as he knew (and a few he just made up out of desperation).
That’s the Chicago way!
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DarkIckyGypsymoth-size_restricted.gif
i think i’ll go for something no-one at first would pick. but i got a master intimidatior to back me up
– Escape artist!
…think about it, why is ‘Freddy Krueger’ so freaking scary? man is the iconic figure of ‘I rolled 3 on my cha’.
Answer? he can get into anything! you can not escape him, even in your dreams.
-sure there are the immortality and knives, but gun beat knife and if you could have lock him up in a cell immorality hold no big power then a genie in a bottle.
it’s the fact he can get out of anything that might hold him and into any safe place that make the dude so scary.
so. let your target run and hide and lock himself up. then slither in through the thin gaps in the bars. that’s gonna make them scream and try to negotiate…
An other horror movie option i actually used was Stealth. (pathfinder)
got it with a halfling with the ‘Creepy Doll’ alt racial ability (‘ If they cease moving and pretend to be a doll while they aren’t being observed, they can use the Stealth skill without cover or concealment’) and the ‘Ashiftah’ witch archtype (they can vanish with move action after using a hex, give them the flight hex and they can vanish after an immediate father fall leaving them with standard action to wreak havoc.
Of course I named him Chucky…
I can see how that’d be creepy. But like… How do you actually bring it to bear? Do you have to wait for a scenario where you victim is in protective custody or something?
the link about barbarian’s intimidating failing was for interrogating prisoners.
what you do is show them the nice bared cage and the group of muscle bound wack jobs next to you. give them the cage’s keys and say:
“i’ll give you to the count of 50 just to keep it sporty…”
I wish more games quantified how much of an intimidation bonus you get from metaphorically breaking someone’s kneecaps. Charisma makes sense as the only attribute that applies if you’re trying to break someone by talking, and it should have some effect even for the big guys (it’s harder to take the cyber-troll seriously if he stammers every other word), but it would still be nice to have clear numbers of what bonuses you get for twisting the metaphorical thumbscrews.
Anyways…the least intimidating skill in the Pathfinder skill list is probably Appraise. And against most people, it wouldn’t have much effect. But against the right kind of vain noble…
(Or you could have Arcanist reveal that a merchant’s wares are fake and threaten to reveal this fraud, but that feels more cliche.)
Nice. Threaten to take away what’s most valuable to ’em. I can dig it!
It’s funny… So many of these things fall under “miscellaneous bonus from +1 to +5,” meaning that you’d probably get a little boost on your actual intimidate roll by doing a “preparatory” skill check, rather than simply rolling the skill check in place of Intimidate. I do kind of wish there was more guidance on that process though.
Appraise: Determine a bunch of hidden details about them based on the items they have with them, scaring them with how well-informed you are.
The Sherlock Holmes, eh? That discomfited any number of Victorian perpetrators back in the day, I’m sure.
This character used to tell fortunes, and just so they could increase their own ‘legend’ as a true oracle, they would sometimes ‘make’ them come true.
I never got to do it in game, but I was building up to a moment where I’d I’d offer to tell someone of ‘a terrible fate that yet could be avoided.’ A combination of Bluff and Profession, that.
“The cards say someone will set you on fire if you don’t do what I tell you…”
> I was building up to a moment where I’d I’d offer to tell someone of ‘a terrible fate that yet could be avoided.’
And that character’s name?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060666/
3.5e d&d had a skill caller Perform (Weapon Drill) or thereabouts that’d fit the bill, a flurry of skilled weapon handling and swings to or knowing how to hold the weapon just right could do nicely. Works nicely for the beefy types, as it specifically got bonuses from a high BAB or certain common tax feats for martials that’d off-set the charisma deficiency. It was also part of one of my favorite fluff builds (bard spell that lets you use perform in place of concentrate, maneuvers that let you use concentrate in place of a saving throw as an immediate action, dodge a fireball by cleaving it clean in half and letting it explode to either side of you).
Heal works as well; it’s mentioned as being used for torture, but there’s no need to go and strain your alignment when you can use the knowledge to paint an ugly picture in someone’s head- speaking of which, Knowledge (History) would let you bring up all sorts of “””Fun””” things people used to do to others- Dr. Mrs. The Monarch from The Venture Bros managed to extract a confession from a supposedly fearless prisoner by bringing up a method of execution that starts by putting them in a mostly sealed (air and feeding tube) tub of milk and feeding them honey, then calmly explaining what would logically proceed to happen as that milk inevitably spoiled over the passing days and the honey attracted insects and vermin.
Or stepping out of the realm of skills for a second, a favorite spell of mine on the Ranger list called “Allfood” lets you make anything inanimate within a size/weight limit consumable with proper nutritional benefits for you. Demonstrating the sturdiness of a chain and them proceeding to casually snack on it (open mouthed for bonus gross out points and making it clear you are in fact chewing and eating the chain) while side-eyeing the other person like a sirloin steak should help in some cases.
On one hand, it feels weird that weapon drills are a Charisma-based skill. They were designed as ways for knights, soldiers, and other martial types to practice the sorts of motions they’d need to perform in combat under non-life-or-death conditions. Feels like it should be a Constitution- or Dexterity-based skill, or even a function of BAB and weapon proficiencies.
On the other hand, using drills as a form of intimidation has plenty of historical precedent. Plenty of Classical-era sources talk about generals surrendering when they see the enemy (usually Roman legions or Hellenistic phalanxes) drilling for extended periods. It shows that the army is disciplined, well-trained, and above all, listens to their general even when he tells them to do exhausting pointless tasks.
I’m serious. Extended drilling is a sign of good morale, which means the army won’t rout or betray its general easily. Combine that with how devastating heavy infantry in good order were to most Classical-era armies, and it’s not hard to see why such a demonstration would make most generals feel outclassed.
I’m not aware of any instances where one guy used weapon drills to intimidate people, though.
It’s one of the oldest hobbies in the game.
“Why should I need a special skill to do something I could logically do? My fighting-man could have attempted to pick pockets before this new-fangled thief class came out!”
Same deal with the Perform (Weapon Drill) example.
“What do you mean I can’t waive my sword under the dude’s nose by rolling my attack? Why do I need a special skill for that?”
I once played a tiefling druid who consistently screwed up intimidation checks, because she was fairly non-threatening… only to have her Deinonychus companion succeed almost every time.
Technically she wasn’t even making a (successful) check at all, simply having a pet did the work for her.
But she could just as easily have made a Knowledge Nature check to gush about the finer points of the said dinosaur.
“This is Lona! She can hit 45 miles per hour when chasing prey, which she dispatches by punching out their jugular with the 5 inch sickle claws on her hind feet. Don’t worry, she’s well trained; she won’t eat you unless I say it’s okay.”
lol @ Playing Dr. Grant: https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AnimatedRemarkableHamster-mobile.mp4
Stealth, you keep leaving notes and messages on the person and they and nobody can see you. They just have notes and threats poping out of nowhere every time they blink for a second no matter where they are without finding anyone leaving them 🙂
It takes a special kind of person to see the breakdancing bear…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB_lTKZm1Ts
…And then say, “I want to RP the breakdancing bear!”
I know Firefly has been mentioned once before, but when reading today’s article, I just thought of the best Intimidation check made using Medicine and Int, by one Simon Tam:
“I don’t care what you’ve done, I don’t know what you’re planning on doing, but I’m trusting you. I think you should do the same. ‘Cause I don’t see this working any other way.”
…followed up by the perfect help action from his sister:
“Also, I can kill you with my brain.”
And as to the rest of the post, this year was my first Dragoncon! My wife and I went to sell at their new Anime District and that side of things went pretty well, but seeing the convention, getting introduced to the various cults, and generally just the size of everything, we had a blast, and absolutely plan to go back again! Hopefully as selling artists, but if not, it’ll be worth the trip regardless!
River Tam coming in with the
steel chairhelp action!BAH GAWD THAT MAN HAD A ~~FAMILY~~ CREW!
Me, I’d take advantage of my low Charisma score. Pull a Braveheart and get buck naked.p
Showing off that low Cha for all the world to see!
I don’t mean to sound demanding, but may I ask when the cast page will be updated? I know that Artificer has only existed for a few weeks, but Occultist’s been around for more than a year now, and Van Helscion is now all but forgotten; the most recent addition was Drow Priestess on July 19th, 2019. The page also has yet to reflect the events of the 2021 Halloween arc (although I guess that could be for spoiler purposes). (I keep remembering more characters as I write so I’ll just go ahead and make a list.)
Artificer: August 22nd, 2022
Assassin: March 14th, 2022
Van Helscion: September 20th, 2021
Occultist: May 24th, 2021
Ninja: January 22nd, 2021
Warlock: November 2nd, 2020
Cavalier: September 11th, 2020
Swash & Buckle: July 10th, 2020
I hope it can be updated at a point not far in the future, schedule goblins allowing.
I freely admit that I did 2 hours of archive digging to get all the names and dates right.
Also I’ve been reading this comic since March 2021; I just very commonly “lurk” around this sort of thing — but I DO feel that the cast page needs updating, and I guess it finally convinced me to comment.
Ball’s in Laurel’s court. I finally got around to writing the updates last month. We just need to do a bit of web design.
Maybe when we reveal Paladin’s goddess’s name in the next few weeks?
Since I could do this for literally any skill (assuming a GM willing to roll with it)… I’ll just roll. First for a D&D 5e skill and then a Scum & Villainy one.
Ok for D&D I got…. History.
Well that’s easy enough. Start rattling off the names and descriptions of torture devices and which ones are available in the nearby area. Or the location of a forgotten catacomb we could bury them alive in. Or just go for actual torture and recite to them the entire genealogy of everyone with the tiniest amount of noble ancestry in the region.
For S&V I got… Helm. Simple enough, just take them out on your wildest joyride down a lane of a superhighway…the opposite direction of traffic. Or put them in an escape pod attached to the ships hull with a long cable and drag them through an asteroid belt for a bit. Or just use a ship weapon and fire it close enough to them to give them (probably) not permanent eardrum damage from the noise of the blast.
So that’s what Trinity was doing! Homegirl was trying to scare the Keymaker into helping the resistance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qmp41eDp3E
Wile I would lile to come up with something clever for say… Survival, or stealth.
Ive had an scene in my head for a character I made recently. A changling using performance and deception, wile wearing the face of the Intimitate-ee.
Convincing the person their not the real one, or how easily they could be replaced And no one would miss them if they were.
Which is… Kinda messed up….
Sometimes, PCs aren’t the good guys. O_O
Exactly!
Terry Pratchett’s Vena the (no longer) Raven-Haired was a barbarian-warrior-turned-kindly-grandmother whose Craft (Knitting) skill could intimidate to great effect. Technically, the bandits who tried to mug her were intimidated only for a few short seconds, but after seeing where Vena put her knitting needles, the *survivors* would remain terrified for life.
So stabbing somebody to death tends to scare people. Fair cop. But there’s a sense in which forcing an opponent to surrender via combat is the default substitute for Intimidation.
I feel like Perform is the best solution, but only if it’s untrained. A bad enough Singing check for some improv Karaoke probably legally qualifies as torture in most settings =P
Of course there’s always Medicine/Healing/whatever, because when you truly know your anatomy, you know every button to push to elicit the most pain. Possibly without so much as leaving a mark, if you want to go that way.
Some good Sleight of Hand/Thievery, not much can make someone fear you quite like the realization that while you two have been chatting, they’ve stolen everything off you. Bonus points if you can call attention to it on demand. Possibly including your very clothes if this is a high-level PF2e adventure.
Also, someone mentioned Religion and putting the Fear of God in someone… but double down. First: be a Cleric of an Evil Deity. Then you use Religion to tell them all the horrible, torturous things that happen to souls that wind up in the domain of your Patron. Finally, look them dead in the eyes and say:
“This is what I willingly signed on for. I volunteered for this fate, as my power guarantees that in Death I will rise to the top of this (Hell, Abyss, other appropriate afterlife). Do you truly believe I am one you should be messing with?”
Just did karaoke the other night. I’m sure Dio would have beheaded me for the rendition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lvs2FzF64o&t=58s
And speaking of Holy Diver, I quite like the Religion angle. The divine retribution thing isn’t something you see too often, but it is rock solid:
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/tools
I would suggest perform, and I give you How I am Going to Make You Regret Pissing Me Off: a play in 3 acts.
Worked for Hamlet!
Craft (Cooking).
It’s all about the Fava beans, and a nice Chianti.
ftftftftftf!
And now, a tale from extinction curse, the pathfinder campaign where the party runs a circus. My cleric is of Sarenrae, the goddess of fire. At one point, we interacted with another circus, and one of them insinuated my cleric’s fire eating act sucked because she was afraid to get burned.
So I stepped back to clear the area, and cast fireball centered on myself.
Reflex save to intimidate? just need the right reason.
Wait… Who was afraid to get burned? The cleric or the critic?
The cleric- the premise of extinction curse is that you escaped from an evil ringmaster to start your own circus, and their crew came to harass us. He called me a bad fireeater because I was afraid to get burned (in actuality, my cleric didn’t speak common, so she legitimately just didn’t understand his instructions- she learned common in the time between the escape and the campaign’s actual beginning)
Now that I could actually understand his insult, I decided that it would not go unanswered.
“If I’ll do this to my own hit points, think of what I’ll do to yours!”
“You want some sick burns? Here’s some sick burns.” *Fireball*
From the Sorcerer school of trashtalking.
I too have a character who is willing to light himself on fire/fireball himself as an intimidation tactic. Though in his case it’s more of a case of “you cannot turn me from my path, I will take any measure I must to hunt you down”. Also he does get bonuses from being on fire soo
Truespeak. Sure, you might have to dive into some poorly written 3.5 content, but being able to utter a name that defines a creature in their entirety should count for something.
Rope Use? Demonstrate the knots you’ll use to tie them to your mount, and how the knot will slip, bit-by-bit, into a tighter knot.
If you’re strong but have no Cha, you just need a friend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94LL8J8WYT0
I was ignoring this one because to me, Intimidation is the only skill I allow to be used to scare someone. Other skills can Compliment, but there is a reason the Intimidation skill exists and if you don;t know how to be scary, describing things in an unconvincing and unscary manner simply won’t work.
However, it did just occur to me as I have a Character with a fairly not very good Intimidation skill who keeps using to scare people into things (mostly to //stop// fighting), that I do sometimes allow Intimidation to used in “not exactly scare but goad” people into doing something.
I treat the social skills as Influencing skills, some are positive Influencers, ones that use ‘appealing’ language; Fast-talk, Public Speaking, and Sex Appeal, but Carousing can fit into this one; some are ‘neutral’ Influencers, they tend to be either about equal exchange, or just about knowing how to best ‘give orders’ or get someone talking; Administration, Diplomacy, Carousing, Leadership, Merchant, some are about knowing how to act appropriately in certain situations; Savoir-Faire and Streetwise… but there is only one that I consider to be a ‘negative’ Influencer, Intimidation.
So I do allow Intimidation to go “out of box” a little, but usually this is in the “act tough.macho” goad someone into “acting tough/macho back”… like to encourage someone to ‘man up ‘ and do something that maybe frightens them by appealing to the macho social forces of the society they live in (a very “Viking’ thing) without exactly being a “they’re doing it because they are more afraid of me than the thing that scares them” (ala Drill Instructor style).
So coming back to why post this? My barbarian Ogress just picked a fight with some giants who were throwing boulders at others in her location (quasi-allied dragonfolk soldiers) by yelling at them to “come fight me” and insinuated they were cowards, using Intimidation…