Community Backlash
You wanna know what really gets my d20s in an AC vent? The phrase “if you’re having fun, you’re doing it right.” That’s right. I’m gonna take a big, steaming critique on everyone’s old pal IYHFYDIR.
Before I do, however, allow me a disclaimer. IYHFYDIR is perfectly true (super hecking valid, even) if you’re talking about your private game. Just look at these dumb lizards enjoying their bad-wrong-fun. They are young adventurers having the time of their lives, and you’d be a great big bag of everlasting dung to tell ’em otherwise. But if your talk has veered from “what I like at my table” to “what constitutes good game design,” the phrase loses its luster.
When it comes to experience design — whether we’re talking about creating a theme park ride, a scryPhone app, or a D&D session — we all start with our own preferences. You add in a log flume ride because you love log flumes. You set the default background to dark mode because hey, doesn’t everybody? And your adventure features goblins because they’re a friggin’ classic. There is nothing wrong with any of these approaches. Chances are that you can create some cool splash zones and UIs and combats encounters with exactly these things. But then the data comes back. Log rides are expensive to maintain and unpopular in the fall . Dark mode is crap for accessibility. Your players are getting sick of goblins.
You see, your experiences are valid. But then again, so are everyone else’s. And if you’re designing for hypothetical people rather than a specific subgroup (read: your individual table o’ gamers) you’ve got to go beyond your own fun. The only way to do that is to listen to other people. And at that point, IYHFYDIR is somewhat less than useful.
So now that I’ve animated and then murdered this straw golem, what do you say we do some of that listening-to-other-people stuff? For today’s discussion, tell me whether you’ve ever spoken our phrase of the day. And perhaps more on-topic, has anyone invoked IYHFYDIR to you meaning, “I like it so it’s correct?” Tell us your tale down in the comments!
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Orbert looks ready to charge — well, roll — into action.
You know Jigglypuff’s neutral B?
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Rollout#/media/File:Jigglypuff_Neutral_B_SSBU.gif
My college-age son now games more frequently than I do. Despite all of my consternation and confusion at his tales of how the Curse of Strahd campaign he plays in is being run (“But, WHY?” grumble grumble 5th edition rassafrassin), he still occasionally dusts off an older adventure I’ve written and runs it for some of his friends–and they really-really enjoy that, too. Intellectually, I know that folks can simultaneously enjoy different styles of gameplay, but it’s enough to give this old codger cognitive whiplash. How can they enjoy my stuff if their regular table is so very different? The feedback I’ve gotten from one group (too undead heavy, zombies popping out of the snow like daisies) is sometimes just what another group liked (“The mob fight at the end was classic! George Romero meets Dead Snow!”) I can’t decide if the lesson I should take from this is “Give the people what they want,” or “If they didn’t like it, go find a group who does.”
Links to adventures you’ve written?
I had a long discussion with the GM of the starting campaing about wether we use rolling o4 point buy for attributes, we both have our preferenced, he favours rolling as it keeps things interesting and prevents min maxing, while personally I prefer point buy as it keeps characters equivalebt to each others and bad dice dont screw you over. Neither one of us was opposed to each otjers views so which one is right or is the right way somewhere between? Well to me he as the game master sets the rules and as a player I can agree to play with them or find another game more to my liking. As far as attributes go, I have no issues with rolling over point buy, just that I have had attrocious luck with multiple stats under 10, good thing the GM back then let me reroll the lot but it still left a scar.
Yo… I know a thing or two about that argument.
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/high-roller
> Dark mode is crap for accessibility.
Oh god how I hate it when you don’t get a choice. I literally cannot use darkmode apps. My eyes just say nope and start to tear up and hurt after a couple minutes. And especially cause most dark mode apps are like, superdarkgoth, using dark gray on black, or similar low contrast choices.
And why? Cause it’s trendy.
I believe I have triggered you. XD
The only time I use the phrase is as a self-check to not be judgemental. If I find my self thinking, “Geez, that’s stupid!” or somesuch, I just remind myself that if they are having fun, more power to them.
Sure, that’s right for individuals. But do you ever find yourself thinking a design decision was poorly thought-out? Because that strikes me as an valid place to level judgement.
All the time. And I can still be judgemental. But I try to not impose that on others, especially when it doesn’t affect me. If I am involved in a game where I think something is “bad” or “not fun”, then I will try to work with the GM to fix it for that game. If that doesn’t work, I get to decide if I can live with it or not. And if I am involved in the design of wherever that poor decision is, then I will definitely engage with changing it as best as possible.
I have always been too judgemental. And I can still be judgemental when I think it is important. But, usually it isn’t important. And in those cases, you do you.
So hey, you ever watch Bob’s Burgers? Because your critique reminded me of an episode that actually featured a long tabletop gaming session (Loft in Bedslation). It offers a pretty neat counterargument to “this is what’s fun” — namely that people will say that, when they actually mean “this is what’s comfortable”.
And you know, comfort isn’t a bad thing? The X-card exists for a reason! And while it’s common to suggest trying different systems on for size, it’s much harder for some players than others to learn an entire new ruleset. Especially if it’s not been vetted, as not everyone can handle the frustrations of playtesting.
But we should call it what it is — staying in your comfort zone. And if you’ve already decided you’re going to have a bad time anywhere outside of that comfort zone, that’s exactly what’s going to happen.
I don’t know where I was going with this. Maybe that keeping an open mind is as important for yourself as it is for other players? Let’s go with that.
I really need to go back and finish the series. I didn’t even know that was a TRPG spoof ep!
Wait… What are you doing Gunslinger?! That is a full blown event! With lots of others adventurers involved and a ridicously large number of enemies! They need all the help they can get! Don’t you get it? This was your change to team up! An adventurer party was just created last week to face this treath, for crying out loud!
Orby is the only friend he need.
Gunslinger and Orby will be best friends forever.
So… bets on which of our heroes is going to smash Orby to stop him from falling into the hands of the vampires?
This is moments like that which make you wonder if Gunslinger had really tried all that hard to join a party…
But he’s not concerned with all that folderol in the winder community. He’s perfectly content with the adventuring he’s got, and doesn’t see why he should bother to see what this latest fad with techno vampires is all about!
Wait, Paladin wears a golden armor, have cut down the tallest try with a herring, lately he has been shining and now he is trying to smite the moon? o_O
Is he… He is gonna solar exalt?!?! 0_0
Suppose good time giving the vampires in town 😀
That would be copyright infringement! I mean, he might Transcend, or Ascend, or Ignite, or Other Synonym, but he would NEVER Exalt! >_>
Hmm… I’ve used similar phrases, but mostly as reassurance or to tell people to use their own judgement (e.g. “Should I let my players use this spell in this way?” “Depends. What would be more fun?”). I’d say anyone who uses IYHFYDIR to mean “the way I like is the way it should be” is seriously missing the point: It’s about what works for your group, not what you should expect from every game out there.
Now, I have had arguments where people insisted their preferred way of doing things was the “right” way, and while none have invoked IFHFYYDIR on me, they are an issue worth acknowledging. If one person likes, say, their paladins always being tied to deities and all their character deaths being permanent, that’s perfectly valid, but it doesn’t make other people wanting to play nontheistic paladins or get their characters resurrected any less valid. It’s one thing to say what’s fun for you, but quite another to insist that everyone like what you like.
That’s the distinction I’m talking about! It may be right FOR YOU, but extending that beyond your table is a bad idea. It’s always the move from personal to universal experience that kicks off the trouble.
I haven’t said or heard the phrase verbatim at a table, but certainly the essence of it.
As a GM sometimes I’ve been more a stickler for the rules and sometimes I’ve been more “eh, whatever’s more fun for the players that I don’t immediately see is going to cause problems”. Probably leaning towards the later as I got older.
I’ve had that kind of positive experience as a player as well. But of course also a few times where I had to deal with the kind of situation where what was “fun” rules breaks for the GM or some other players weren’t what I considered particularly fun.
Of course I’d say overall I’ve had more positive experiences with it than negative, especially as I’m the kind of person who tends to usually want to make character concepts that color a bit outside the lines as far as what the rules strictly allow you to do.
The border between “outside the lines” and “breaks the game” is a subject of unlimited debate. More’s the pity. :/
I’ve never spoken that phrase specifically, but I have experience with something along those lines outside the sphere of TTRPGs.
So, I write things. Sometimes I submit them to contests, or publishers. One early lesson I learned when I started doing that was that just because I like it, that doesn’t mean others will. In fact, what I personally consider my best work has been constantly turned down every time I’ve submitted it.
The reverse of the idea is true too, though. I’ve had works accepted when I had no real inspiration and thought “Eh, I’ll just slap something together and submit it to this contest.” I didn’t expect to win at all with those, and was just writing to keep in practice, but the judges liked them far more than I did. Just because I didn’t like what I wrote very much doesn’t mean that others didn’t love it.
There’s a reason we have beta readers. What you like might not have any relationship to what the world likes.