Puppy Kicking
The votes have been tallied and our latest Patreon poll has a winner. It was down to the wire, but Antipaladin managed to snag that coveted spot in The Evil Party. I hope you’ll join me in welcoming our chaotic evil fire genasi to Handbook-World! (Better luck next time, Assassin!)
I don’t know if you guys have ever attempted an evil campaign, but the couple of times I tried I found myself sharing in Antipaladin’s struggle. It is hard being senselessly evil! I mean, how can you actually function in normal society? How much of a sociopath do you have to be? Are you morally obliged to kick the puppy?
I struggled with this until, in the depths of some long-buried forum post, I came upon a simple idea. The revelation was this: evil can have friends. You are allowed to care for your fellow party members. You are allowed to have relationships with other people. Even if, like Antipaladin, you happen to be chaotic evil, you can still be more than a sneering caricature. I mean sure, if you’re down for a comedy game then go nuts. Tie adventurers to railroad tracks or whatever. But if you’re trying to represent a slightly more serious form of villainy, then you’ll want to be a believable character first and an avatar of pure malevolence second. That means you are motivated by more than evil will always triumph because good is dumb. It means that you can pet the puppy if you want to.
So as a thought experiment, why don’t we put our favorite villains to the test? How would your favorite fictional evil-doer react to a cute puppy? And for the sake of argument, let’s concentrate on human-like villains. While it’s amusing to imagine the Xenomorph Queen or Galactus meeting Patches, I don’t think that will reveal too much about the nature of evil PCs. Everybody clear? OK then. Pick your villain, put them in a room with an adorable pupper, and let’s hear how it turns out in the comments!
ADD SOME NSFW TO YOUR FANTASY! If you’ve ever been curious about that Handbook of Erotic Fantasy banner down at the bottom of the page, then you should check out the “Quest Giver” reward level over on The Handbook of Heroes Patreon. Twice a month you’ll get to see what the Handbook cast get up to when the lights go out. Adults only, 18+ years of age, etc. etc.
Xanatos would question why he was supposed to kick the puppy. Then, if he didn’t get a really good reason, he’d try and make friends with the puppy in case it can help him later.
I never got into Gargoyles. Is he basically Lex Luthor?
He is the guy after whom the Xanatos Gambit was named. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosGambit
In short, whatever you do will benefit him in some way.
“evil can have friends” – when I get into this discussion, I often cite Belkar Bitterleaf.
On point! Especially that recent page with Hilgya:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1115.html
Actually, that’s Minra. Hilgya has braids, and horns on her helmet.
NOOOOOOOO! I’m a filthy casual. *melodramatic sobbing*
Hmmm, he’s not chaotic evil, but I know of a certain mad alchemist who would probably combine it with his daughter for money. Jokes aside, devoid of context, most evil characters from Palpatine to the Joker would probably just ignore the dog. Given context, like it being a requirement to join a super evil club(that for some reason they want to join) they’d go at the dog like an Anakin in a Jedi nursery. Often, being evil is less about what you will do, rather than what you’re willing to do. Of course for some, the dog itself is a context, an evil mad scientist would probably immediately start experimenting on the dog out of curiosity, and evil outsiders that embodies death and/or destruction would immediately kill the dog unless provided a reason not to.
Yeah I was thinking about FMA also, but more along the lines of what each of the homunculi would do to the puppy.
Lust would probably ignore it.
Envy might kill it out of spite, should it garner more attention than he.
Gluttony would eat it, obviously.
Greed would take it and try to make it love him.
Sloth would ignore it, unless it bothered him a lot.
Wrath would ignore it, as it is clearly unworthy of his attention.
Pride would probably kill it to anger the owner.
…Oh, you’re doing the inferior Brotherhood versions.
You monster. This should be the TRUE good/evil test.
Weirdly, it wasn’t until I saw your comment that I considered the in-game applications. Suppose that the PCs have to infiltrate an evil organization, and they’ve got a “senseless evil” test at the door as a sort of check before you can get in? In a world of demon cults, that actually makes a certain amount of sense as an obstacle.
I think that having a “senseless evil” test could be useful to weed out potential good or neutral PC’s, ofcourse kicking a puppy is pretty evil-light as tests go. Instead, if you really wanted to make sure someone is EVIL, have them rape a baby.
FYI, apparently the comic-book series that inspired the movie WANTED had a “senseless evil” test that required the person to rape a celebrity in public.
Also of note regarding The Joker:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pScx8BN4h3s/TBpc9pXYroI/AAAAAAAAI5s/mCIOybeUha4/s1600/harley-09.jpg
I dunno about going Anakin on the puppy. I feel like most of the truly evil characters would be more likely to demonstrate their credentials on the person that dared to ask them to prove themselves. Because wearing their face as a mask is going to be far more impressive to the rest of the organization than kicking some puppy. Sure, maybe you would have needed them later, but that’s what Resurrection is for… or better yet, Animate Dread Warrior + Command Undead.
For a lot of “evil” characters, their motivation comes from the real or perceived treatment they receive from other people. The “I’ll show them” or similar for the more Chaotic, or the “everyone would be happy if they would just do what I say” of the Lawful. In most of the media I enjoy, the villains may well be objectively Evil, but think of themselves as the good guys. A normal person with hatred of specific groups.
I dislike the puppy-kicking test because to me it feels “Stupid Evil” (or as the comment above mentions, an embodiment of evil such as exists in D&D), whereas a real person may well be kind to the puppy while committing awful acts on other humans. They don’t feel slighted, threatened, or jilted by the puppy.
I believe you have uncovered the thesis of today’s comic. 🙂
Do you think real-world evil can fit inside a D&D world, or does the alignment system demand cartoon evil?
Im not sure its a good example but this whole discussion got me thinking about Dr. No
Damn man… It’s been a couple of years since I watched a Bondathon on TNT. I can’t remember enough about that movie to get the reference. Mind expanding?
I don’t think it’s impossible to fit in, but I think it’s very dependent on the DM and the other players buying into the game being real-world morality rather than fantasy, or cosmic, morality. Either works to create a fun game.
I’ve played Evil characters, typically Lawful Evil, as loyal soldiers who will always do the right thing, except they think that obeying orders is right, and going the extra mile to please superiors is even better. I read extensively on the Nuremberg trials to get into character.
The thing is, that while these characters were clearly evil, this wouldn’t be obvious in a D&D world because their enthusiasm and thoroughness in burning Goblin villages doesn’t actually stand out. Was my dislike of this revelation the reason I started RP’ing the Waffen SS? Maybe…
My theory was that unless the PCs work for a moustache-twirling villain, a Sheriff of Nottingham-esque type who clearly targets “innocents”, war crimes and crimes against goblin-ness don’t register in D&D because the DM will have picked “evil” species for the PCs to fight. That’s the problem with D&D morality.
In real life, that village isn’t evil, it simply is part of a different country, follows a different philosophy or religion, etc, but in D&D it is assumed to be actually and actively in league with actual forces of local Hell, because that’s an actual place in that world.
This leads to the ridiculous claims by DMs and players that my character should actually be in league with the Goblins because they are both Evil, and thus on the same side in some cosmic battle. Nonsense, my character is an upstanding patriot, a hero who has led military campaigns to protect his people against the threat of those green-skinned marauders who prey on the unwary. He doesn’t care about the cosmic stuff, and even if he did he would be sure he is Good.
Thus the problem with D&D morality is that it can in theory work on many different levels, and conflicts arise when different parts of the group want to use it differently. RPGs are a shared story, and this is just another bit that must be shared. My character just isn’t right for a “smite the unrighteous” campaign, for cosmic battles stuff I would take a different character. If Rule 1 is “let’s have fun” then Rule 1a has to be “let’s all get on the same page here”.
Actually, that brings to mind a possibility. A lawful good fighter serving under a lawful evil despot. I mean, I wouldn’t call the entire North Korean police force as Lawful Evil, but Kim Jong Un certainly is. It would certainly be possible that there is a Lawful Good policeman who is looking out for the best interests of the citizens within the limited framework of the law. I would say, from what you have said of him, that you’re character is one such person.
I wouldn’t call the entire USA evil.
Actually yeah, I would. A big evil overlord that wages wars and organize coups to replace the elected leaders with their puppets – all to steal their country’s recourses. And if that doesn’t work, break their economy with sanctions, making common people suffer and die. Not only other countries – they not shy to do the same with their own Police shoot people dead without fear of any punishment. Elections getting rigged. Media enforce strict censorship, so the voice of only one political party can be heard. European countries are not any better, dogs learned to bark when their American masters whistle. If evil corporations that earn money from common people suffering and death are lawful evil, then common people that support them are stupid evil. All of you capitalist pigs are evil. And North Korean Supreme Leader is a saint.
Prisoner #129030 would not kick the puppy. He’s evil, to the point where he’s literally made of the stuff, but such an action gives him no pleasure. No, the bound devil would prefer to test his blade against a worthy opponent. Failing that, an unworthy opponent who would at least produce an amusing scream before they’re crushed.
That, and his parole officer/summoner is in the room. The prisoner really doesn’t want to make his sentence any worse than it already is.
Just discovered this spell the other day:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/infernal-challenger/
Your devil eidolon gives me that vibe in a big way.
It kinda steams my hams that Infernal Challenger isn’t on the Un-Summoner list, especially since the character described above is a devoted Hellknight.
Oh well. At least I’ve got my own version through the eidolon. One of the Prisoner’s duties is filling in for the summoner devil anyway 😀
Chaakravartin (not even sure if i spelled that right) from Asura’s Wrath. If you check the wiki and do an overview of EVERYTHING BAD THAT HAPPENS, he caused all of it for the sake of finding a successor to take the place of being god so that he can ‘help’ another world. IMPLYING THERE WERE OTHER WORLDS HE HAS MESSED WITH ON COLOSSAL SCALES. So yes, if the puppy was in his way, it would be smited.
Went to the wiki. Saw the wall of text. I’ll take your word for it.
Yeah. It’s pretty terrifying…
Why kick the puppy? Dogs are famously loyal, raise the puppy into a loyal guard dog who enjoys chasing down escaped prisoners and bellyrubs.
Are there any fictional characters that embody this philosophy?
Bitch from Worm is the first that comes to mind.
My personal favorite thread on how to play an evil character: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil.
Anyway, my choice of villain to put with the puppy: Napoleon from Animal Farm. I feel like this choice is kind of cheating because we already saw in the book how he would act; he would steal the puppy away from its mother, raise it in seclusion from society to be fanatically loyal to him, maybe use “kicking” and other punishment to make it more vicious and install a bit of fear into of him into it from a young age, then when the puppy grows up unleash it on his rivals and use it as an enforcer for his domain.
All for the good of The Farm, comrade!
One of my all-time favorite villains is the Horned King (from Black Cauldron), who I personally would assign the alignment of Lawful Evil.
Brief Synopsis: A tyrant, called the Horned King is seeking an artifact called the Black Cauldron which according to legend can bring the dead to life (which the horned king will possibly use to ensure his place on the throne, or to maintain the size of his army). Unfortunately, the bards of the land can offer little if any help as to whereabouts of this mystical vessel, so instead the tyrant began to seek out diviners. The main protagonist of this story is a young boy named Taran, who is tasked with being assistant pig keeper. The pig that the boy cares for is Hen Wen, a creature with powerful divinatory magic. One day, the minions of the horned king capture the pig, and Taran follows the captors back to the castle in-order to save the pig. Taran, is soon captured and brought before the horned king.
The following conversation then occurs:
Horned King: I presume, my boy. You are the keeper of this oracular pig.
Taran: (Who is scared out of his wits.)
Y-y-y-y- yes, sir.
Horned King: Then instruct her to show me the whereabouts of the Black Cauldron!
Taran: Oh, sir! I-I can’t, I promised!
Horned King: Very well, in that case the pig is no use to me!
(Creeper begins to laugh madly and grabs Hen Wen. Taran tries to stop him, but he is seized by one of the Henchmen.)
Taran: What are you going to do?!?!
(He sees Creeper place Hen on a chopping-block.)
No! You can’t! Don’t!
(the axe is raised…)
No! Stop! I’ll make her tell you!
What I love about this scene is that I respect the fact that the horned king is illustrated as respecting oaths and promises. Too many times I have seen villains who when told that ‘they cannot, they were sworn to secrecy’, the person is instead threatened and tortured in attempts to extract the information. The horned king will not waste any effort or time on making someone an oath-breaker, and a pig who cannot divine is just a pig (better served to feed his troops).
Now others may argue and say that placing the pig upon the executioner’s block was an idle threat, and that the horned king did so only in attempts to convince Taran to break his promise. I disagree, the tone of the horned king in the film was cold honest truth. The horned king could torture the boy till he either gave up the information or died, but that could have unintended consequences itself (an honestly a waste of the tyrants time).
If the ocular pig had instead been an ocular puppy, I have no doubt that the king would’ve killed it in the same manner. However, it wouldn’t have been done for some stupid reason like ‘proving they are evil’.
You know, as much as I enjoyed Prydain books as a kid, I never put in the effort to actually sit down and watch the animated Black Cauldron. I should make a point of it one day. Everyone says that version of the Horned King is an amazing villain.
The movie rather poorly tried to combine the plots of The Book of Three with The Black Cauldron. It failed spectacularly.
The Horned King certainly makes an intimidating impression though. He really represents the Stag-Headed kind of person well.
I remember the black cauldron. I watched it as a kid. nostalgia intensifies
I feel that rick Sanchez is a good example of how to properly play Chaotic Evil. He hates rules, authority, his fellow sentient beings, and himself, but he still has plenty of friends, and he loves his direct biological family.
Good example!
My favorite evil character of mine would stop and pet the dog, but if it bit her she would set it on fire.
My favorite evil character ever… wow that’s actually hard to pick. I’ve never thought about it until now. Most of them would probably pet the dog though. A few would kill the dog. At least one would eat the dog.
I think this interaction illustrates an important point about bringing evil to the table. There should be a reason for the evil. It doesn’t have to be much (clearly immolating a puppy for nipping at you is an unreasonable thing to do) but it’s got to be something. And crucially, it has to be something that the other players at the table can understand. If your PC does horrible things “just cuz,” then it’s awfully hard to justify adventuring with them.
One of my favorite villains in fiction is Dr. Horrible (from the self-titular miniseries Dr. Horrible’s Sing Along Blog).
One thing that’s great about it is that he struggles with the idea of murder in order to gain reputation with the Evil League of Evil. The whole show really just seems like a good study in “evil characters as protagonists”.
Ah man… I wish that the sequel had got off the ground. I actually look a bit like NPH, and did the costume for a Mad Science party a few Halloweens ago. If my dog hadn’t chewed up the boots I’d still be doing that cosplay.
Now we need the comic where Paladin and Anti-Paladin team up and the caption is pointing out that PVP is bad form, even if they deserve it.
Can’t happen. Whenever a Paladin particle and an Antipaladin particle meet, annihilation occurs and energy is released, usually in the form of thrown dice.
I think this goes back to the alignment thread, but I always thought that Antipaladin shouldn’t be a thing.
Shouldn’t they just be a Paladin of an evil god?
We don’t have Anticlerics or Antioracles… shouldn’t they just be within one alignment move from their chosen deity?
I think that “Paladin” and “Divine Champion” are two very different concepts. I also think a lot of players get frustrated that the latter, much broader concept is not the default. It all goes back to the “why do we need more than fighting man / magic user / cleric?” debates of yore.
I’ll probably wind up exploring this question explicitly now that Antipaladin has entered the comic. It deserves a full blog post of its own.
That’s how it worked in 4E. The only alignment requirement for Paladins was having the same alignment as your god. This did take away the options for secular Paladins though.
In 5E Paladins are divided into Oaths with specific tenets. The rule is follow your tenets, but you can be a fuckup paladin who tries,but isn’t quite up to their ideals.
Oath of Devotion is Paladin Classic. It’s really hard to follow its’ tenets without being LG.
Oath of Ancients is a sort of hippie knight. It’s tenets require you to be generally some sort of good.
Oath of Vengeance is for psychopaths and Zealots. At best you’re playing the Punisher, but the “By any means necessary” tenet means you can totally play it evil so long as your enemies are evil.
Oath of the Crown is for Judge Dredd. You have to be Lawful, but it can be any sort of Lawful you like.
Oath of Conquest is actually easier to play as Lawful Good than Oath of Vengeance if you read what its’ tenets say instead of their titles. It an basically be anything but Chaotic Good.
Oath of redemption is for those obnoxious Mary Sues who are “Too pure for this world”. It generally is played as any Good, but you could totally take it in a Lawful Neutral/Evil Clockwork Orange direction.
Oathbreaker is an option for Paladins who broke their Oath, but liked the power more than their principles. It explicitly has to be evil.
As I’ve said, I’ve done a lot of organized play, and main Paladin. I’ve had to team up with all manner of necromancers, war criminals, psychopaths, slavers, and generally bad people. It would have been uncool for me to smite any of them, no matter how obnoxiously far they pushed those boundaries.
I can’t think of a “Favorite” off the top of my head, but I always liked how Garou from One Punch Man handled a similar situation. He couldn’t get over the “What’s the point?!” part of it and refused to play by their rules just because they said so…
I think most of the “good” evil characters in stories, simply wouldn’t care about something like this. Maybe it would be better to call it Chaotic Petty…
After all, kicking a puppy isn’t going to prove you’re evil. I could kick a puppy and all it would make me is a jerk.
I think one of the best ways I have seen this handled was in Dr. Horribles Sing-a-long Blog, where they didn’t care what was done, so long as he proved his devotion.
One last thing. At least I think he is Lawful Evil. John Wick would adopt the puppy, and probably kill anyone else who tried to kick it… just sayin’
John Wick deeply disapproves of this thread in general.
John Wick strikes me as more of a CN. He doesn’t really give a damn what other people do so long as they leave him alone, but God help you if you get on his bad side.
I’m not sure I would call Garou evil though.
~MANGA SPOILER~
To me seems like he has an outlook like Stain from MHA, but he’s in denial about having that outlook and isn’t quite able to bring himself to the “kill” part of “kill the corrupt heroes.” Look how far he’s going to protect and save some random kid, even while constantly telling both him and itself that it’s just because heroes make him mad and the kid is just getting in the way.
~END MANGA SPOILER
Garou’s tsundere about saving that kid. 😀
(And he’s currently TRYING to kick a dog, but Overgrown Rover is a little too big, and spits energy blasts.)
Honestly, I’m jist imagining the Desians from “Tales of Symphonia” just screaming “Inferior being!” at the puppy.
*just
And I’m imagining the Daleks doing the same thing.
…And then we have a series of tryout comics for the evil party’s 4th member.
Fighter is kicked out for being a mad dog.
Summoner leaves when a ZomBaby bites off his groping hand.
Gunslinger initially joins because he’s desperate for friends, but cant stomach the evil.
Bard joins as a chance to get revenge on fighter, and actually sticks with it.
Also; now that Witch and Necromancer are together, they can get a bulk rate on double-sided tape.
I thought I remembered Xykon from OotS talking about kicking puppies at some point, but searching through the comic I couldn’t find it. He is a card-carrying villain though; has a good laugh when discussing the possibility of minions dropping dead from forced marching here http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html
The acronym “WWXD” has an XD built in for a reason.
Played an evil character once in a play by post game some friends and I were playing. He would have taken that puppy, pet it, fed it, found a cute child to give it to, and then led that child to the stables where he kept his demonic “horse” and fed the child to the creature. Like he did with the stable hand. That got a lot of “Wait, what the fuck just happened?” from the group. Mwah ha ha ha!!!
Was there an in-character reason for doing any of that, or was this more of a “let’s freak out the rest of the group” meta decision?
They weren’t expecting it mostly. No one else was playing an evil character and they had no idea I was. He was much more the manipulative type than the overly violent sort, but his steed was demonic and needed fresh meat, of the humanoid type. He was mostly helpful to the rest of the party, though he had his ulterior motives. One of the party’s members father was a vampire with a large undead army at his disposal, and my character wanted that army for his own benefit. And was willing to do what he had to to get it.
Morgoth from the silmarillion has Carcharoth, his little evil puppy. He raised it, he feeded it. So why cant evil people have friends, and puppys?
^ Preach!
So when is the cast page getting updated?
https://media.giphy.com/media/ib9h1mFOPCLWU/giphy.gif
“I can’t kick that puppy. As an Anti-Paladin, I am morally required to kick EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD in defense of my one true friend, this puppy. Or this one party member. Everything in the world can die except this one thing that I care about, and I’ll make that happen in the most horrible ways possible if I have to!”
I actually really like being the Token Evil Teammate, but I gravitate towards Lawful Evil. In my experience, its the alignment most likely to get things done. Or work with the heroes towards a greater end – after all, can’t conquer the world if some Chaotic Evil jerk destroys it.
I kind of want to make a plays-well-with-others chaotic evil character as a thought experiment, just to see if it can actually work within a standard party.
I’ve really enjoyed it! I played a Neutral Evil (with strong Chaotic Evil tendencies) druidess once. She was really quite pleasant to be around as long as you didn’t try to tell her what to do. She liked having friends, she liked not being alone, she didn’t exactly see the point in cruelty for its own sake, but she had very few real moral or ethical standards and had a nasty sense of humor to boot.
In another game I’m in, I’m playing a cleric who used to be a Chaotic Evil bandit healer. As an evil character, she was an AMAZING team player–learning how to keep her teammates liking her was instrumental to keeping herself alive, after all. She was a pretty messed-up kid with a bad childhood who really liked suddenly being able to wield control over people, even if it was just “be nice to me, I’m the healer”.
Kinda reminds me of Courtney from Paranormal Park. And that’s a good thing. 🙂
Loki doesn’t kick the puppy. But only because Hulk was there to do it for him. =P
15 Weaknesses You Never Knew The Hulk Had. #1 will astonish you!
https://www.cbr.com/hulk-weaknesses-you-never-knew/
There’s the Metalocalypse episode where where Dethklok remain affectionate towards the wolves in their yard even when the wolves eat their therapist alive
“Look, the wolves eat him”
“Yes, and his body will nourish the wolves”
“Am I the olny one who’s being made to feel hungry by watching this?”
“Let’s eat!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C07iLOuwXOs#t=01m11s
And on a related note, the children of the night scene from Dracula. A wolf’s basicalky like a dog, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xmz-p9FYW8
As I said in a previous comment section, I absolutely hate playing evil characters because it is hard for me to stomach playing such stuff.
However, I have played one evil character, but the game did not last long. That character was a demon-blooded dog-hengeyokai Malarite that was a firm believer in consuming at least some part of every kill he made, and for that reason he hated undead enemies. Having been raised as a feral dog, he wouldn’t kick a puppy just because. If he did anything to it, it would be to toughen the dog and make sure it would grow up strong and abusive towards its juniors. And if it was a wolf or werewolf pup, he would almost certainly run screaming, since he was afraid of werewolves (in that regard, he worshipped Malar in the same way an orc would have revered Melkor, through fear alone).
I’m hard-pressed to think of a villain that would actually kick the puppy. Maybe Anti-Pops from Regular Show might do it. He seems like the kind of brand of evil that might kick a puppy just because it makes him seem more sinister.
I’m getting jealous of all your 3.X experience. It seems like you’ve played a crazy diverse set of characters in the system!
The Antipaladin takes the dog and trains it to be a hunting dog when he hunting down peasants
“We must nourish your evil, Sir. Puppington Bloodsqueak. How else can we pass down good family values to future generations of peasants?”
Well Find Steed can summon a Mastiff.
My Favorite Villian. Thats Easy. Appollyon the BBEG of the Game For Honor, she’s a vicious Warmonger, and a Black Knight.
If she met a Puppy well, depends, if her Troops are on the March, the Puppy would be made into Food. I mean why waste perfectly good meat?
If she meets it at Home. Well she would leave it alone. I qoute: “Sheep can not be blamed for what they are, but they should not be allowed to forget it either.”
In Essence: The Strong have the right to take from the Weak, but if there is nothing to be gained, why take something?
I can see why you like her. She sounds all manner of compelling.
kicking a puppy is not evil, it’s just wrong.
Jayne in “Firefly” is a good example of how a chaotic evil character can function withing a neutral-goodish group.
You got me curious enough to go looking. Apparently there’s some diversity of opinion on the topic of Jayne’s alignment:
http://i.imgur.com/ut1mbBW.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/58/56/52/5856522d4e21a38fee1ae4b6e38465d7.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/41/15/58/4115583ea7212d872e681ae99f7afb54.jpg
https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg7xi8kMW61qzd4beo1_1280.jpg
Goofy alignment charts aside, I think you’re right on the money. Jayne is not a good dude, but he can still contribute and serve as an interesting character in a mostly-good party. That’s a good example for any morally gray PC.
Riskel Blackwood (LE High Elf Fighter, yes my own character) would probably find who owns said puppy, return it to it’s owner, clean and with a new collar. If it’s a stray, then adopt it, raise it to loyally serve him, and attack any who offend it’s master, and use it as the poster-dog for his new propaganda campaign while making sure to take care of it well. All in the name of evil.
What a reasonable and kindhearted fellow! We should give him more temporal power.
My favorite character so far was Locus (aka “the cheerful sociopath”), and despite being dangerously close to Stupid Evil he was oodles of fun to play. Two main things made him work.
First, he was violent, almost completely lacking in empathy, more than a touch sadistic, and just plain didn’t ‘get’ most emotions… but he wasn’t stupid. His goal in life was personal entertainment. An adventurer with regular quests and consistent back-up was basically his dream job. So he was more than happy to adapt himself to the morality and especially the goals of the group. This (along with his role as tank) made him a valuable and reliable party member; not much to complain about when the token evil teammate steps between you and incoming arrows with a cheerful smile and a maniacal laugh, and is actually one of the least likely to derail the plot with wacky personal incidents.
Which segues nicely into the second factor: the party. I’ve come to believe that paragons (be they paragons of murder and terror like Locus or paragons of good like Jaun “Aegis” LG Cavalier/Paladin, my second favorite character) work best in morally grey parties. Such parties contrast nicely with them without feeling like they have no business becoming friends/working together. Locus was a terrifying sociopath, but since no one else was going for evil I wasn’t stepping on anyone’s toes by outshining them in that department, and since no one had a moral compass too much beyond “It’s a living” or “I live on this planet” I wasn’t stepping on anyone’s toes by causing cognitive dissonance as to why they’d put up with this unrepentant murderer.
It was a balancing act to be sure, but it was tons of fun.
Y’all excuse my necromancy here.
Real world examples:
Hitler of course had his Alsatian Blondi and was famously fond of her, but he used her as a test to see if the suicide poison he had been given would work and she died badly.
Aaron Burr would have kicked the puppy, or set it on fire, or whatever he thought would give him a social edge. In the balance between puppy on the one hand and Burr’s ambition on the other, puppy loses every time.
Animal torture is so common an event among serial killers that it’s actually part of the official profile, so it can be said that most of the no-arguement evil human beings known would kick the puppy just for the pleasure of doing so.
As far as my own favorite fictional villains: they may be evil and nasty, but one thing they’re not is petty. Any organization whose entrance requirements involve casual, pointless animal abuse would be blown off as too bush-league to aid or advance any ambitions worth having.
Dick Dastardly would make the puppy do all the scrub work setting up his next death trap. Puppy would have to balance the enormous boulder on the cliff top. Puppy would have to run down to the ACME store for the supplies. (I know, ACME is the wrong franchise.) Puppy would have to balance on the wing of tri-plane with the net. I’m pretty sure Dick Dastardly has clobbered Muttley with a spanner or monkey wrench or similar too.
I’m all manner of amused at the thought of Patches the Unkicked growing up to be Muttley.
I’m gonna pick my group’s evil character, a tiefling alchemist with at least three or four methods of coming back if he dies. His flavor of evil is the kind that will work with just about anyone if it furthers his long-term goals… but puppies aren’t great recruits.
If he’s being watched, he’ll ignore the puppy. If not…does he need any test subjects?
Senator Armstrong kinda sorta did kick the puppy, but only because it had a sword.
New meme acquired I guess.
I think asking for evil things that have to be done to be evil the wrong approach. What might make it hard to get to the point I’ll make is the Neutral option. If you instead go back to the old book that defined good and evil for all western culture it becomes much easier: So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin (sin = evil).
Example: Tiefling with fire resistance in front of a burning orphanage. He could save the kids at no risk for himself. Not doing it would be evil. There is no neutral action here.
Evil as the darkness to the light, that is good.
And as many pointed out, it isn’t even necessarily in the act itself, but in motivation. Good is doing good for the sake of good. While evil guy could do the same things, but he’d always ask first “what is in it for me?” And if there is nothing in it for him, he won’t do it.
Of course this approach draws the line where many of those “murder hobo” adventurers would fall flat on their face over that G or N entry on their character sheet. But if you grant the wannabe evil character that this cold ignorance to the suffering of others is evil enough to put the E top right, then stupid evil can die a silent death.
Suddenly finding this comic after watching some of the original Thundercats series last night (first five-part series — new characters yay!), I am now mildly amused on recalling that said series’ main antagonist actually has a dog. (Which is apparently intelligent and has some dark powers of its own.)