Original Character
The votes have been tallied, and our latest Patreon poll has a clear winner. Meet Kineticist, the latest resident of Handbook-World. (Better luck next time, Duskblade!)
For those of you unfamiliar with the class, Pathfinder’s kineticist is all about channeling the forces of the elemental planes. It’s got a bunch of neat tricks up its sleeve, but shooting energy blasts is the central gimmick. Similarities to any popular animated franchise you might be thinking about are purely coincidental.
We’ve actually taken this topic piecemeal on other comics. Last time we touched on genre mashups a dirigible had fallen on the Heroes’ campaign. When last we talked about PCs based on pop-culture characters, Fighter and Cleric nearly came to blows. For my part, I remain convinced that both practices can be a good thing. You’ve just got to have buy-in from the rest of the table. Setting expectations is critical when you’re trying to introduce Ash Williams into a pirate campaign for example. (True story, btw. Dude turned out to be a pretty great PC). But what happens when one of these unwelcome ripoffs rears its head unexpectedly?
In all honesty, that’s a genuine question for the comments, because I’ve never seen it happen as such. My buddy who played Ash wasn’t literally playing the protagonist from Evil Dead. The man-out-of-time conceit was just a springboard. Same deal with Laurel’s latest Firefly PC (here, have some bonus concept art), who turned out to be a takeoff on this lovable Russian hunk of metal. My point is that riffing on existing characters can produce solid results. Trying to actually play Drizzt Do’Urden or literally roll up Ghost Rider seems like a new player thing to me, and I don’t know how seriously I could take that mess in-game.
So here’s the question of the day: Have you ever met a PC that crossed the line from homage to ripoff? How did it play out in-game? Let’s hear it in the comments!
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Oh how convenient, I started playing a telekineticist recently and bam, here’s a kineticist. I wonder what element she is (nethys forbid it’s wood).
Telekineticst is my favourite though thematically because instead of blasting fire or ice or electricity, you throw literally anything that isn’t bolted down (and with telekinetic haul, maybe even the things they’re bolted to.)
Laurel’s gestalt character in Crimson Throne is Aether Kineticist / Cabalist Vigilante. Her dude throws around wooden theater tokens as his primary weapon. Is good times.
Marbles are a go to ammunition for me when going aether. Who’s there to say how many marbles come in a single pouch? Hell, not even I know.
Well then. I now want to play a catfolk kineticist named Cat’s Eye.
I’ve got an aether kineticist who carries a coin pouch, and tosses copper at the enemy. Sometimes he uses silver or gold pieces when he’s attacking bosses. His name is Avarice and he’s pretty neat.
Actually, on the topic of ripoffs, I describe his Elemental Overflow as his body being consumed by the power he wields and I’ve taken to using All Might as an example picture
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/bokunoheroacademia/images/6/61/All_Might_Full_Body_True_Form.png
Marbles are good yes, but my kineticist is a chef and she literally kills people with tomatoes and pies.
That’s amazing and I love it forever.
That’s my Alchemist!
Except he throws pies and sauces.
I love my Aether Kineticist. Best things rule wise is the Extended Range with them and the fact that no matter what you pick up it acts the same. And if you are just doing a basic blast and act like you are throwing something it becomes a WTF moment. In one session I took out a guy with a slice of bread and got a guy fired because he seemed to be knocking things over all the time. It is the ultimate Rogue power.
“Kineticist”? I think you mean Wu Jen Mystic, which is still UA anyways.
It’s a common typo. Seriously, the keys are like, right next to each other.
In 40k, everyone is playing a rip off of a char. Who is that char to be exact?
The zealot who blindly follows the imperium while wanting to rip and tear everything he see’s that isnt human.
GOD FORBID YOU WANT TO PLAY A ABHUMAN.
He will proclaim your char to a be a mutant and BLAM you on the spot.
But hey, thats how the setting roll’s so playing a zealot that wants to fight for the emprah is sorta expected in the setting.
By the way do you have any 40k stories? Ever played 40k? Or have you heard any 40k stories?! The all guardsmen party counts as a story 😀
I never got to play any of the 40K RPGs. I’ve got some Grey Knights sitting in my basement, but they haven’t come out of their bubble wrap in a while. I just don’t have the time for another hobby these days, as much as that sucks. I actually plunked down $10 for entry into a Necromunda campaign last month. I bought my box of Escher chicks, assembled them, and then left them on my hobby desk like a scrub. Never even got in one game. 🙁
Actually, I’m more of a Mordheim guy than anything. Throwing XP at a squad of dudes really tickled my emergent narrative fancy. Plus I enjoyed building Hirst Arts models more than painting minis.
Now that I think about it though, way back when I was getting into RPGs I had a Mordheim campaign. I figured I’d use 3.5 D&D for the skill system, resolve combats with a game of Mordheim, and everyone would love my zany homebrew. There were a few cool moments (the PCs had to pilot an animated witches’ house out of the city as Mordheim formed itself into a giant golem to throw Sigmar’s comet back into the sky), but suffice it to say that no one loved my crazy homebrew.
Mordheim is excellent as long as no one’s playing some Grey Elves or Reiklanders who have stupid ballistic skill and plant themselves in some corner to shoot everything dead.
Unless you’re playing Mordheim on Steam! That game is delightful.
I have a few days worth of memories with my friends and piles of cardboard and glue and spray paint where all we did was build terrain and then get like 2 games in before we ate at a Korean bulgogi place.
Have you tried Iron Kingdoms? It’s approximately D&D 3.5, except it’s in War Machine/Hordes world, roughly parallel with WH Fantasy.
I have distinct memories of painting a trollkin dude for the RPG and then destroying my voice trying to croak in-character. I couldn’t tell you much of what happened in the 1.5 sessions we played though. It was one of those abortive campaigns that ultimately drove me to take up the GM chair myself, more’s the pity. It seemed like such a cool setting!
I was lucky enough to have an excellent DM, and I played a Bodger while my buddy was an Arcane Mechanik. We made an armored wagon and a crappy warjack, and I made all sorts of crap like some Extendo-Scissors built from two axes and a bunch of rope and detritus.
that sounds more like a type than a specific character. I’ve never played the 40k games; is it the actual game mechanics that forces this uniformity of motivation? (40k is the one that has all those beautiful miniatures and the gorgeous topography tables as its set-up, right?)
It’s a quality of the 40k universe. The Imperium of man is a pretty fascist human-elitist society where mutants, aliens and people with beliefs differing to strongly from the common canon of the Adeptus Misitrorum (the church that forms one of the central powers in the empire) are all to be killed.
Basically, if you were to play a character that feels that Xenos (aliens) are actually okay, you’d still need to behave like you hated them, otherwise you’d, at best, be instantly shot for heresy, at worst thoroughly and typically unpleasantly investerrogated by the Inquisition.
So it’s not the mechanics as much as the style of the society of mankind. It’s different if you play a char or a campaign that is not part of the Imperium, like a rogue trader, but most of the material is from the perspective of the empire of man.
And yes, the tabletop strategy game is just that.
It’s a universe very rich in lore, you can read up on that shit for ages. I really recommend it if you’ve got a month or two free with nothing to do 😉
it also doesn’t help that most of the 40K roleplaying games are designed to build parties with over arching metanarratives.. you’re playing an black ops inquisitorial team out to kill all the psychics, aliens, and heretics that threaten the Imperium, or a fireteam of imperial guard out to kill the xenos and heretics that threaten the Imperium, or your playing a group of genetically engineered spacemarine uberwarriors out to kill all the aliens and heretics that treaten the imperium, etc. the games are designed around being part of some organization or other within the fascist xenophobic society that is out to basically kill anything that isn’t a human of the same fascist xenophobic viewpoint.
there is a partial exception in the “rogue trader” rpg, where you are part of the crew of a merchant which goes around the galaxy making deals.. you are from the Imperium but you aren’t automatically required to kill anything different from you. but the fans of the setting being what it is, most of those games would end up similar.
they can occasionalyl be a little interesting to read about (especialyl the ones that cross the streams a little, like the “all guardsman party” in quisitorial game) but its not one i’d be find of playing.
but then when i did play 40K, i played Tau, so maybe i’m just not enough of a xenophobic fascist to see the appeal?
Yes, most of the time the fanatics is an issue that comes from the community and some settings because murderhoboing is more appealing, or when they want to make it edgy for the kids, as there is lots of worlds where that doesn’t apply and have deals (and alliances) with aliens all the time.
Getting a wh40k fanatic to troll you when mentioning all of this because it is not edgy (grimdark) is a common trope in the community in the last twenty years.
On the part of abhumans, a PC being completely against them would have a hard time depending on the DM, as not only they are around alive in the Imperium but they are in the armies with some being heroes, act as bodyguards of important people, and in some cases have a mini Empire for themselves.
Would only make sense that they could do that undisturbed if it would be an Inquisitorial Team, a Sister of Battle, or one of the most crazed but still more or less loyal Space Marines (and that would be hypocrisy as they are pretty much abhumans already …).
I get that Wood doesn’t deserve a mention, but, come on, Void should definitely get one!
Clearly, she operates on the Greek system.
She operates on the “listing too many elements spoils the joke” system. I straight up agonized over how many to include to be system-accurate while still clearly referencing Avatar. Five seemed like the right number: just one more than the famous intro, but still a fairly obvious reference.
Aether is Void, I believe.
Naw. They’re distinct in-game: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/kineticist/kineticist-elements/#TOC-Wood
Back in the era of 3.5 (about 10 years ago), there was this one player who was obsessed with playing Sephiroth (from Final Fantasy), and so being the gm that I am enjoyed the challenge of statting the guy out. I think in order to get all the different abilities that Sephiroth had he ended up near if not epic level (level 20+). Everyone else in the party was level 3 or level 5. Anyways 1st combat rolls around and Sephiroth attacks with his massively oversized katana…and rolls a nat 1.
RAW this would just be a miss, but in our game we used fumble tables (we also used critical hit tables aswell). So sephiroth rolls again…and rolls a second nat 1. Suddenly the group grows silent, as rolling a second nat 1 requires rolling the d20 a third time. So he rolls the dice a third time…and rolls another nat 1.
Now normally according to the previously-established houserules regarding fumbles is that if an enemy rolls three nat 1s in sequence, the enemy fumbles so bad that they die. But the gm that I was, decided to be merciful, and in addition to the effects rolled on the fumble table had the epic level Sephiroth lob off one of his own toes.
The rest of the players thought that the ruling was perhaps a bit too lenient, but appreciated that they themselves wouldn’t face immediate death on three natural 1s. Needless to say, the player was pissed that someone as powerful of Sephiroth could possibly lob off his own toe (let alone fumble) and ragequit (and I am okay with that). I learned a couple things during that game, which I feel made me a better gm.
Anyways, just gotta say any Kineticists who are forced to use ONLY 1st party content absolutely sucks. If you want to play a decent kineticist, you need either Kineticists of Porphyra or Legendary Kineticists. So already I am feeling sorry for the new character as much as I feel pity for the 3.5 monk (Order of the Stick: On the Origin of PCs, pg 62).
Gotta disagree there, they arent op or anything, but i wouldn’t consider them too weak either. Probably around the 30th or 40th percentile around in vlass strength. You just have to recognize that they are made pretty differently from any other character and play around that.
Pretty sure there are tables with the math calculated out that the kineticist deals less damage than a commoner with a longbow.
I’d be curious to see the longer explanation if you’ve got one handy. It’s hanging just fine in the early levels, but I imagine that iterative attacks hose it pretty hard late game.
I mean there are several threads that go into detail about why the Kineticist sucks. But it mostly boils down to the following:
1st: BAB, while engergy-based kineticists are going to hit (especially at later levels where touch ac eventually drops to 0), regardless of what their BAB progression is, physical-based kineticists start off being able to hit their targets but as they gain levels become completely ineffective (other 3/4 BAB classes make up for this with iterative attacks).
2nd: Odd class design, inorder to be effective, you have to make yourself a glass canon (by accepting burn). Not to mention the way that infusions and utility talents are distributed making you half-assed (and thus ineffective) at both.
3rd: Lack of out of combat utility. This has been somewhat lessened with other Kineticist supplements, but it still pains me to see a Kineticist chosen to join a party (when literally any other class can contribute more to a party of adventurers).
4th: Lack of support among resources: Of course, what I mean here are feats and gear. There aren’t alot of variety when it comes to useful feats for a kineticist, nor is there when it comes to magical equipment. I mean besides a belt of constitution, what else is there really?
5th: Damage scaling. Kineticist deals so little damage it is pitiful. Yes, a kineticist can optimize their blasts, and to what avail? To do comparable damage to what an NPC class with a longbow?
I really disagree with you there grovestrider, as is shown in that guide, kineticists can do really high damage with their blasts, with around the same accuracy of other 3/4 classes. Since they likely do more in that one attack then the other 3/4th classes would with a full attack, they are alot more likely to get their damage through too since they dont have to depend on their likely to miss iterative attacks. They also get the bonus of still being able to move too if they dont feel like gathering energy. In addition, if ac is too high, then they can just switch to a energy attack if neccesary, or a Aoe. Also they can be effective without becoming a glass cannon, and can simply choose to do so when things are desperate and a certain ability is neccesary. Thats alot better then just bein fragkle without much vhoise. In addition, i feel like while they dont have as much out of combat utility ad full casters or dedicated utility characters, they have better or comparable utility to most other guys unless you go something like pure fire. There is unfortunatey not as much support for kineticists as i would like, though you forgot about the diadem, but that does mean that there feats are open for alot of the other awesome options available in pathfinder, like getting a bloodline, a vmc, or some other awesome ability, and just general equipment is still very good on them, just like with a spellcaster. Finally, if iterative attacks are so important, there are options to get that, even though i dont like them typically except for the knight.
I don’t actually care enough to argue about this because the kineticist is inferior in every way to the elementalist (from Spheres of Power); and strangely enough the kineticist was published years after the elementalist.
Ofcourse, I also have a similar opinion on paizo’s shifter class (which I feel is equally ineffective). I mean seriously, why even bother with the shifter class when a druid with 9 wisdom does the shapeshifting shtick better.
While I mostly agree with you about the shifter class, as it is pretty awful, even with the errata allowing them to use their natural weapons for iterative attacks, the kinetics is in no way completely inferior. I would say elementalist is somewhat better, as the ability for the elementalist to pick out a few things from other spheres is pretty nice, along with how utterly broken the bomb option is, which is something that I don’t think would be allowed at my table for just breaking the game and instakilling anything 1 or twice a day. Still though, besides the bomb, the kineticist’s basic blasts, even the energy ones, without burn just completely outcompete the elementalist’s when they are using spell points, just crushing them. Even when they do add spell points, they can’t really compete with the kineticists energy blast’s damage without burn. Also, to hope to approach the kineticist’s ability in blasts, they have to take a good amount of talents from the destruction tree, meaning that they can’t take too many elsewhere, while the kinetics isn’t so limited for their utility talents. Thats not even considering that you can also do stuff like create tornados and earthquakes at will, have permanent invisibility, make giant castles of force, shape the lands around you freely, and many other things to extents that no caster that I’ve seen can emulate. Now they aren’t a strong class, but that doesn’t mean they are weak either, and they just aren’t inferior in every way to the elementalist.
Not spending spell points with Destruction sphere is as easy as taking the Gather Energy talent (reduces spell point cost by 1).
The elementalist also doesn’t need to wait several levels before being able to make blasts that use different damage types. It is quite possible to make a blaster that deals 3+ types of damage at 1st level (unlike the Kineticist who usually needs to wait till 7th level to pick up a second element).
As for tornadoes and earthquakes, while it is true that you can use such abilities at-will, how many times per day do you really think you will need to use them? Because your average level 18 elementalist will have atleast 23 spell points (and with earthquake only costing 3 spell points per casting, that is 7 castings for the elementalist)
Alot of the other stuff you mentioned can easily be accomplished using spellcrafting, incantations, or advanced talents in spheres of power.
And ofcourse, the elementalist has the bonus that their caster level continues to progress when multiclassing with other spherecasters (or any other class if they invest a single feat).
Except even with gather energy there damage is much lower then the kineticist, even without them using stuff like composites and stuff. With that, their nova potential is insane, being able to even one shot tanky bosses with their hundreds of damage easily later on. While getting multiple damage types is defintely nice, its typically not that important early on, where the elementalist has such a advantage there. Also, while you will likely never need that many earthquakes, thats still a decent amount of spell resources its taking from other things. Also, being able to do somethhing infinitely opens up options that just being able to do something a decent amount wont, such as using reverse gravity and stoneshape to steal mansions, or destroying entire cities with earthquake instead of just a small area within it. I’ll take your word that such things can be imitated with that stuff since im not an expert in spheres, but i have a feeling it just wont be done with the ease of use the kineticist has for alot of their abilities. Besides, if you have a system that allows a character infinite options for what they can learn to do with their magic, of course they will end up stronger then one of the normal classes. I will agree the fact that kineticists can’t multiclass sucks, they seriously need to do something to improve that. Regardless. Even though i agree the elementalist is overall the stronger class, it is indeed not better in every way, and the kineticist class is not a bad class unless you consider the vast majority of non full caster normal classes to suck too, which i could see if you use spheres of power alot, since that seems pretty strong.
This guide shows that the kinetics damage can actually scale pretty well, and thats while also have all their infusions for extra effects, and utility talents for lots of utility and cool stuff, like making permanent wall of force fortresses for free, at will any direction reverse gravity, or just regular cool stuff like permanent flight.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479198-A-Useful-Guide-for-Useful-Kineticists
This is the story I wanted to hear when I wrote today’s comic. That is awesome and hilarious, and much better than straight up killing the dude. XD
The problem is that when someone says “I want to play [established character]”, they frequently mean that character 5 minutes before the end of the game or movie or whatever, when they are at their supremely-most-powerful-hyper-competent-ultimate-form. Depending on what game you are running, that might not work so well.
My reaction would probably be something like “sure, you can play Sephiroth, but you’ll do it as the character 5 minutes after they showed up to boot-camp, not knowing which end of a sword is which or how to tell a glaive from a pike, etc.” And then add in the rest of the abilities as they level up.
Except in most cases (unless you are using a concept-based system), the adventure or campaign can end before your character-concept even comes online.
For example, try stating out Marvel characters as 1st-level characters with core pathfinder content. Sorry, but core pathfinder doesn’t really do character-concepts well at 5th-level let alone 1st-level. Ofcourse once you allow concept-based 3rd party content (such as Spheres of Might or Spheres of Power), you can suddenly make these characters. Want to play antman? Resizer mageknight. Dr. Strange? Spherecaster with Creation, Telekinesis, and Warp spheres. Rocket Racoon? Technician.
I guess what I am saying is, that playing a boot-camp Sephiroth is not the same thing as playing Sephiroth, and try not to limit players from playing what they want to play (especially if 3rd party content exists that makes it possible).
I’m open to a variety of character-concepts, but not when that concept can’t be distilled from specific powers that make it unfair for the campaign.
Aang only knew how to bend one element at the start, after all.
Gotta agree with deepbluediver here, if a characters concept only works if they are considerably stronger then the rest of the party and just overshadows them, then that can easily hurt the other players fun. They should have to match the level of the other players, and only use 3rd party content approved by the dm for being appropriately powerful, sknce alot of 3rd party stuff has considerably higher power levels.
I winced when you said 10 years ago for the 3.5 games; I am still, technically, trying to finish a campaign in 3.5 that I started DMing just as the 3.5 mechanics were coming out.
Whoops.
Time to send out another query and see if one of these months I can get everyone to agree on a time zone to wrangle about the schedule in.
Or maybe just convert it utterly into play-by-post, and finish it off.
I’ve offered a couple of times to just cut-screen narrate an ending, but noooooooo. “We’re going to solve that murder mystery first!” “Who cares about the dead rich chick, the sorcerer’s dog-familiar is still kidnapped!”…. I can tell you a story about how that ends, you know… “Noooo! Must save unnatural talking dog that showed up one day and announced it was my familiar, whom I have never once questioned the origin of!” OOooookay then. Shall we talk about a time to finish? “Sure, let me just get through this work project and I should have Wednesday evenings off; oh but did I mention I’m moving to Tokyo so that’s about 4am for my brother?”
This thing is going to hang over us for the rest of our lives, isn’t it? I should write up a finishing narration and stick it in my will. 😛
(Anyone have any advice about converting from a face-to-face gaming group to play-by-post?)
Wizard is just jealous that Kineticist’s inspiration handles drama, traumatic backstory and character growth more maturely than he does.
I love heckler wizard. I just picture him walking around in the background of other parties’ first session, listening to their character intros, and then hearing that jerk-at-a-concert call of, “You suck!” drifting over the countryside.
The closest any one in a group of mine ever came to a ripoff character was captain canada, and that was mainly just a joke. Also I don’t think captain america would be willing to crash a airship into a crowded street to catch a crime boss:). In funny new with my current campaign, more and more npcs are coming under my characters control. Between pets, items, and npcs, i can currently take 6 turns a round, though only half are likely to be to useful. Currently we’re joking that i just formed my own party, and should try to speedrun it against everyone else:).
Do it. Come back with a battle report.
Also, I’m unfamiliar with Captain Canada. Like… How does one make that into a ripoff character?
Its just Captain America but from a nonexistent canada instead, I think I mentioned a few comics ago that he eventually got brainwashed into captain puerto rico too after the mayor decided he needed to control him better after the airship incident. That player was a lot of fun, though he left our group after the next campaign due to work. He had no idea how to play or optimize his guys though, but the dm allowed him stuff like the leadership feat to make up for that somewhat.
Aah, my favorite class, so many ways it can be built, so many roles that can be filled. Not once did I ever consider bringing up ATLA when playing them. Though as for stereotypical archetypes… My table has a couple, but usually less media reference and more pun related.
Opi Yum the gnome alchemist who has an arbitrary amount of feyleaf on him.
Brick Shithouse who’s, well, a dumb as bricks arena slave half orc barbarian… Who has 12 int.
Every tengu we’ve come across so far has “Crow” somewhere in their name.
Just to name a few. No matter where you go, you’ll find that creativity does have its limits.
Reading up on the origins of D&D, it’s interesting to track the sources for Gygax. I’m increasingly of the opinion that creativity is a product of combinations from existing ideas.
I have a Discworld like Carrot as a charcter ready to jump to action. Also Sgt. Colon and Corporal Nobbs are definetly going to show up in my campaign, eager to take bribes from my players.
Colon and Nobbs may or may not feature prominently in my Crimson Throne campaign. 😛
and I forgot: I‘d really like to play a Jägermonster (Girl Genius webcomic) can‘t quite decide on race and class. Probbably Tiefling, Hunter or Shifter
Considering the hinting around at the Jaegerdraft, and the origins of Jaegers, surely go with Alchemist!
I mean, there is an actual Captain Canada character since the 1970. https://goo.gl/images/9C3aWG
Yeah man. That’s the character I’m not familiar with. I know he’s made out of maple leaves and hockey. That’s about as far as my knowledge extends.
Oh didn’t know that, that’s neat, also did you mean to reply to my comment?
I believe I’ve mentioned this before, but a couple guys I know from a Planescape-focused group once tried to play Alchemist from DotA 2, using a fire-gnome sorcerer and a half-ogre (we were low level and full ogre would have been too hard). It was pretty fun to watch, and they were able to deviate a bit from the actual DotA 2 character.
So long as the player is willing to let the character evolve into their own thing based off of the way the adventure plays out, I’d be happy to have a ripoff character. But if they refuse to change anything because “that’s not the character I want to play”, I feel like it’d be a bit grating.
I think that is the difference between an homage and a rip-off right there.
It could be the difference I guess. A rip-off can evolve into an homage but only if the player is willing? I mean, if they keep everything including catch-phrases but role-play how they think that character would react, it seems like it’d fall somewhere on a sliding scale between the two options.
Yeah. I may be guilty of using “homage” to mean “good version of thing” and “rip-off” to mean “bad version of thing.” That’s not especially useful for discussion.
I think a better definition of rip-off may be “character who hews so closely to its inspiration that it becomes distracting to other players and a detriment to immersion.”
Reading the other comments i must say it is good to play with creative people.
😀
Please we all know Kineticist is the Dragonball Z class. The avatar powers are the LESS interesting half of it.
Sun Soul Monk is for playing Dragonball.
That’s 5e, in PF the only DBZ-esque thing monks have are fists and bloody crow strike. Kineticist’s Ki Blades and Ki Blasts, Flight, and quite literal powering up is entirely meant to invoke Dragonball Z. It’as a problem then that Monk and Kineticist don’t mesh well due to both having major scaling with level. Unless you’re using Dreamscarred Press anyways.
https://i.imgflip.com/v6ljk.jpg
If they wanted to do Avatar, they should’ve done 4 Element Monk. It may be nigh-unplayable (by 5E standards. Worst case scenario you still have the base Monk chassis which is solid) due to the Ki consumption, but then they can do the wuxia shit and the elemental shit.
I’ll probably go monk next character. I’ve only ever seen our Out of the Abyss gelatinous cube do a monk in-game, and I’d like to see a properly built dude do its thing.
Is there a consensus best (read: most fun) archetype?
There isn’t a widely accepted best archetype, and I think that’s a good thing.
All the subclasses except 4 Element Monk, and to a lesser extent Long Death (As a rule, if it was in the SCAG, but didn’t get ported to another book it’s badly made) are really solid, and mechanically distinct.
Open Hand: Monk Classic. Lots of control, plus your capstone is the 5 point palm exploding heart technique. “Don’t you realize? You’re already dead.”
Shadows: Want to be a Ninja without the weebery? This is the way to go. Want to be a historically accurate Ninja? Go Assassin instead.
Sun Soul: Dragon Ball monks. Slightly sub-par mechanically, but still playable.
Drunken Master: Specialize in fighting crowds, gets brewing tools for flavor, make Jackie Chan references. (The base Monk should be enough to make JC references, but the Drunken Master gets specific)
Kensei: Be Samurai Jack.
I had a homage character once in a campaign, which turned out to be unexpected. I thought it was very recognizable, and was a little trepidacious when first presenting the concept, but no one made any comment at all.
Five months later, after the conclusion of that adventure/campaign, I get an email from one of the other players. “Hey! Did you know there’s a book out there with a character eerily similar to the one you played?”
Um.
Yes, yes I did.
So then out of curiosity I checked; none of them had caught the reference at all.
And as the group conversation developed, it turns out there were a number of tribute characters that made it into various games, which either had gone by completely unnoticed or only a few had spotted. We seem to spend most of our time in very different entertainment genre sections, with the exception of RPGs….
(the one that surprised me most was a player who turns out, had based ALL BUT ONE of his characters on various video game references. Apparently only two were ever spotted, and the guy who spotted them said he thought that the characters were primarily something else, tangentially close and that there were mere nods as an in-joke once in a while. Huh.)
We may have simply been very bad at creating tribute characters with true resemblance to the originals….
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with springboarding off of the source material and into your own thing. Maybe the tribute gets a little bit buried, but my own taste runs more to subtlety with this sort of thing anyway.
If I may ask, what was your homage character referencing?
One level of bard, then into Investigator, for creating a character based on Julian Kestrel (the detective in a mystery quartet by Kate Ross).
If we’d ever made it up high enough in level I’d have taken Leadership so as to get a Rogue cohort/”valet” to be Dipper. In the meantime, had to pretend via hirelings.
I keep forgetting about Investigator… I really need to make one of thems some time.
Did you feel like you nailed the character impersonation? I mean, was there ever a time when living up the character you’d read about turned out to be unexpectedly difficult in-game?
Eh, some of it was pretty close to well done (the quaint and formal speech patterns in particular I think) but…. definitely there were difficult bits!
The character in the books is hugely class-conscious, on thin ice financially and holds himself to very high sartorial standards as well as standards of courtesy in all situations. The courtesy thing was pretty easy, the financial thing was easy, but in real life I am the sort of person who only figures out at the airport security that my socks don’t match and I’m still wearing my stained gardening apron which really didn’t need to go on that business trip with me… remembering, and caring about, clothes on a consistent basis was HARD. Remembering social status stuff is hard too but the other players helped me out with that one more, so mostly it was the clothes that had the DM going, “you know you’re still covered in bug guts, and you’ve said you wanted to make a good impression on the potential informant; were you meaning to try and intimidate them instead of charm them?” The original character would never have forgotten being splattered by ichor!
Investigator had some interesting mechanics that I never ended up using fully, because of the group’s playstyle. I want to play one again in another situation, because I feel like I still don’t have a good handle on them. If you make one and try it out, will you tell us how it goes in a comic commentary?
Sure! I’m moving in a month or two, so I’m thinking about trying Society. I’ll make Investigator my next thing. 🙂
That mouseover text. Just…. ouch. I was literally just going “ohhhhhhhh” for two minutes before I could stop.
I want more details on Laurel’s character. That sounds real interesting. =)
Oh jeez, the shame stories. First D&D character was a weeby rip-off, then I realized why I was hamstringing myself. I won’t chat about that one.
I did use the name Luke fon Fabre (from Tales of the Abyss which I had just finished days prior to making this character on a chat) and didn’t think too much about it, then some of the chat admins had me change his last name because ‘really?’. It wasn’t too big of a deal, so I renamed him Luke Asariya and that was that.
It occurs to me that writing a comic is one of the best things I can do for my pop culture knowledge. Lots of character googling man. Lots of it.
Names are hard though. The one time I ever tried LARP I was asked to make up a roman name on the spot. The only thing I could come up with was “Severus.” That got one of those condescending “really?” responses from the game mod. Friggin’ prick.
Back when I was starting my first 5e game, I decided to stick with my old standby of half-Orc barbarian just so I could get a hang of the new features. Our party all started in prisoner at level 1 so we didn’t have any set gear and had to gather items over time. As most of the party were spell casters, DM often dropped spellcasting components for them and/or daggers, so for most of my starting career my biggest weapon was a knife.
Now while I wanted a big honking axe as would befit my ancestors, I gotten to like dual wielding knives and going all riddick on our enemies. So when I got the chance I took a few levels into rogue to get expertise and take advantage of sneak attacks. Later one when we were freed men I decided to take a few levels in fighter too so I could get the fail weapon fighting style.
It wasn’t until I was about level 10 and we were doing more traditional fantasy adventure romps that someone compared my half-orc to Conan the Barbarian I was confused at first; while I was certainly a barbarian at the time it was actually my lowest class per level (Barbarian 2/Rogue 5/Fighter 3), To Which he replies that Conan wasn’t all Barbarian, he was just commonly thought as one. He too learned the skills of a thief and while he’s known for his strength, he had the skills and tactics of a trained fighter too.
I didn’t think much of it at the time. I barely knew who conan was aside from “the barbarian” or “the TV host”, so making someone so similar to him was entirely coincidental. All things considered I think I played my character well. He had a sort of whole “obfuticating stupidity” thing going on, where he really did have 8 Int but 12 Wisdom, so while he didn’t know much he knew when to let the smarter team do their thing and keep an eye out for trouble. He intentionally plays up his barbarism in order to scare off lesser folk or just to look tough, but when it came down to it he was the one who’s rather do assassinations or sabotage over honorable combat.
Really the biggest problem that arose was that I was accused of NOT playing him enough like a barbarian. That somehow shrewd tactics and social awareness were not something possible for an 8 int, 8 Charisma barbarian. Nevermind the fact that I’m more rogue than barbarian, and when it came to killing that’s actually something my character would have a vested interest in knowing how to do well beyond “smashing them with an axe”.
I never even used a heavy weapon with that character. Always stuck with my daggers.
“Tower of the Elephant,” man. That’s some good thiefing right there.
Had a new player that, with help, played Leonidus. Yes, from the movie.
Before that I attempted to play and build Rurouni Kenshin. It.. did not go well.
How exactly did it crash and burn? Was it a personality conflict? Was it weird playing someone else’s character?
Not a player character but we did briefly encounter an NPC based on Guts from Berserk. I try to avoid knowingly ripping off characters and concepts but I may be forced to rip off a character/concept from Rat Queens (read it for the first time yesterday and loved it) since it works with a non-evil cleric of an evil god (or any other class/archetype that draws power from an evil source but uses it for not-evil) idea I’ve been playing with.
Picked up the first volume of Rat Queens myself last week. That mess is so far up my alley it’s selling wands to Harry Potter.
A buddy of mine plays Revy from Black Lagoon in our Shadowrun Game. Like Copy and Paste Revy. He is actually a good Roleplayer. It also helps that Black Lagoon is very Similar too Shadowrun anyway, so another Hard Drinking, Swearing Pyschopathic Gunbunny isn’t anything Special.
Hopefully he does a more convincing American accent. 😛
As i and my Groups play in Austria, and we talk German, actually Nope. But thats a funny Idea, i’ll mention it to him next time thanks!
Any Greyhawk or Ravenloft adventure that uses the character Iuz lends itself to knocking off Big Trouble In Little China because Iuz has the same thing going on as Lo Pan where depending on circumstance he either appears as a wizened old man or young tall and imposing
I couldn’t speak to that particular example. I’ve never met Iuz.
I will say that there’s a difference between archetype and character. Compare Gandalf and Archchancellor Mustrum Ridcully for example. Hell, if you want to do the old man / young man thing, you could argue that Strahd also participates in the trope as a disciple of Dracula:
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Untitled.png
I just remembered that this has been done rather blatantly in an actual official D&D campaign setting. There are valuable magic gems from the Eberron campaign setting (“Khyber Shards”) that have almost the exact name as a type of valuable magic gem from Star Wars (“Kyber Crystals” or “Kaiburr Crystal” (although the second name originally referred to a specific particularly large stone of this variety), which have been around since “Splinter in the Mind’s Eye”, which was like the second Star Wars story ever written, predatig Empire Strikes Back). Either Eberron knocked off Star Wars’ terminology or else they both randomly decided to name their magic rocks after a mountain pass in Pakistan that hasn’t been relevant since World War 2.
I dunno. I tend to mind it less when it’s a nod-and-wink reference. If you find yourself adventuring with Drewbacca for an entire campaign, I think that can be a bigger problem.
I haven’t met any myself (or if I have, I never knew because they weren’t from fandoms I knew), but I am terrible with names and steal those left right and center. I even reuse some a fair bit. I’m currently playing my third character named Hecate, have played two Tiphaine(s?), and have had more characters with the last name Kholin than could reasonably be related.
I’ve seen that last name thing a time or two. I think it’s similar to every Final Fantasy having a Sid. In my mind it’s a method for connecting unrelated stories into a coherent headcanon, even if it’s only a suggestion of continuity rather than the actual thing. That’s fun for the individual player, but it doesn’t cheapen the world for anybody else.
Yeah, I’ll admit that I do this a lot. Specifically, PI characters that run like a 2:1 mix of Sam Spade and Harry Dresden (Alistaire Hastings: Investigator of Incidents Mundane, Arcane, and Divine), even if I need to force it a touch for the setting. In 5e, he’s either a Warlock (the invocation are very investigator friendly), Druid/Ranger (tracking and having Produce Flame was a cigarette lighter) or Inquisitive Rouge (because… duh), depending on the game.
I’ve also made a stereotypical Wuxia Monk (Way of the Open Hand). She’s stoic, but can have her fun moments.
Now see, I think that a wuxia monk is almost always a trope rather than a rip-off. It might not feel original, but it’s not literally Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee out there on the battle map. You’re just taking bits and pieces from those guys, same as playing “a cowboy” or “a pirate.”
I tried playing a kineticist once. (Technically twice consecutively, because neither me nor the GM wanted to spend an hour on new characters when a swarm killed half the party as our first encounter.) I liked it; it was obviously a riff on a certain anime (fight Geoff, he asked for it), but it also had aspects of the 3.5 warlock and some uniqueness of its own.
Unfortunately, as with many of its fellow occult classes, it’s clunky, underwhelming, and just not worth the effort. I like the idea of burn, don’t like how sharply the burn you’re allowed to take per day is limited or how harshly it limits use of all but your basic abilities. Elemental Overflow is also cool, gives a great anime-battle-aura image, but it’s another set of numbers to juggle. Most of the time, I found myself just shooting water guns at people. Shame how it all turned out.