Power Corrupts
Behold the triumphant return of Scabby, the undead rat familiar! He must have cashed out in that card game, because the little guy is rocking one sweet-ass wand this week.
Wizard isn’t the only one feeling the pain of an overachieving familiar lately. I think I told this story in a comment a while back, but it bears repeating here. You see, I’m running a chain pact warlock in a 5e game, and ever since my imp tried to con me out of my soul we’ve shared a sort of love–hate relationship. This all culminated last session in a daring escape from an underwater dungeon. Stone golems were clawing their way after us, zombies were blocking the exit, the paladin was too weighted down with loot to be any help, and my low-Strengh ass nearly died from the swim check. Suffice it to say we earned our filthy lucre.
So bruised and battered we flop onto the boat. We catch our breaths, give the dungeon the finger, and then roll on the loot table. We roll high. It’s a freaking Helm of Brilliance, and the party is only level 4-5.
So there we are gobsmacked, reading through the abilities one by one. We’re rolling for # of gems. We’re ogling all the ridiculous abilities. Each one of us is mentally preparing his own “I deserve it because reasons” argument. And then we get to the last bit.
Roll a d20 if you are wearing the helm and take fire damage as a result of failing a saving throw against a spell. On a roll of 1, the helm
emits beams of light from its remaining gems. Each creature within 60 feet of the helm other than you must succeed on a DC 17 Dexterity saving throw or be struck by a beam, taking radiant damage equal to the number of gems in the helm.KILLS YOUR ASS DEAD
Suddenly everyone is unsure. I mean, who wants to wear a potential TPK as a hat? So we’re sitting there eyeing one another. Eyeing the helm. Thinking maybe we should just sell it.
“Hey Boss. Can I have it?”
All eyes turn to the imp familiar. He’s perched on a lit torch. He’s immune to fire. Suffice it to say we titled the session “Pimp My Imp.”
Eventually we all stop giggling like school kids and begin to address the rules headache that is a magic-wielding familiar. Can the imp actually activate the item? Does activating the helm break the little guy’s invisibility? Do I need to command him to shoot, or can he fire at will? And if he does fire at will, exactly how do I keep him from “accidentally” including his hated master (yours truly) in the AOE?
I suspect there might be a “correct” rules-as-written answer in there somewhere. It probably varies heavily between editions and systems too. However, I’ve always found that deciding what animal companions, mounts, and familiars can and cannot do varies heavily by table. The important thing is to hash it out with your GM before you roll up a companion class.
Question of the day then. When it comes to mounts, familiars, and minions, who gets to control them at your table, the player or the GM? Do your companions and familiars have minds of their own, or are they just extensions of the PC? Let’s hear it in the comments!
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One thing I always wanted to do is have a game where it’s the PCs that are the familiars/minions/sidekicks/etc. So far the only way to do this that I came up with is to have buffing/debuffing focused PCs and a Pet NPC “Main Character”. I’m imagining here a classic Lawful (very) Stupid Paladin – great at swinging swords and making speeches, but requiring a little handholding/”behind the scene guidance” to actually get things done.
You could also just let people pick their familiar, then take class levels on top of it.
That is to say, you can give the familiars class levels. I’m not quite awake yet it seems.
Well I just had a ridiculous thought. 5e, right? Picture this.
The party are all idiots. They’re smart idiots, meaning they’ve at least got the mental wherewithal to learn the “find familiar” spell. However, they’re incredibly incompetent adventurers. They’ll always go for the frontal assault. They’ll always push the big red button. They’ll always decide to try and intimidate the Great Wyrm Red Dragon. They’re controlled by the GM.
Meanwhile, the players get to play as these mooks’ long-suffering familiars. And I mean literally the familiars. One hp. Base animal stats. The whole bit. You’ve got to gently nudge your “master” towards saving the day. You’ve got to wait for them to re-cast “find familiar” every time you explode in a fireball due to their idiocy.
Maybe a better one-shot than a campaign, but it could be hilarious.
My joke with any of my groups is “If dies, is my next character.” I’d love to do it some day.
I’d probably want to use Chain familiars or homebrewed ones, however, as 1 HP and few-to-no abilities do not make for an interesting game.
TFW you realize 1st level OD&D magic users were just woodland creatures dressed up in fancy robes.
What system are you looking at? I’ve always wanted to do an all-companions “our masters died and now we have to get out of the Underdark” campaign. I’m thinking about using this for the purpose:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/77980/The-Noble-Wild-An-Animal-Players-Handbook-for-Fantasy-RolePlaying-Games-Pathfinder-Edition
I had an idea like this once. The PCs are all Eidolons, and their Summoners function as just-off-the-board fire support that they can call in for assistance X/day times. Whatever master they get saddled with determines the kind of assistance they can receive.
“What’s your action?”
“I call in aerial support.”
Yeah, I’d play in that game. 😀
>When it comes to mounts, familiars, and minions, who gets to control them at your table, the player or the GM?
If it comes from your own spell or class feature, like Find Familiar, Beastial Companion, or Find Steed, it’s yours to control. The creature unerringly does what you say, so having the DM “control” the creature as it does exactly what you say is just a pointless level of complexity.
If it didn’t come from a class feature of some sort, but it is completely trained and loyal, then the PC should also be in control for the same reason. What’s the point? If something extraordinary happens, like your riding horse gets spooked and panicked, then the DM temporarily takes over, but overall it should be the PC doing the thing.
If the creature is a temporary ally, untrained wild animal, or other separate entity, then the DM should control it.
“Do your companions and familiars have minds of their own, or are they just extensions of the PC?”
Companions and familiars granted by class features are unerringly loyal and always follow your commands. That doesn’t mean Familiars like my little Squeak are mindless automatons, however! It simply means that they work perfectly with their summoner. Familiars can and should have their own minds and personalities, lest they be seen less as a party member and more as a class feature with a stat block.
>I suspect there might be a “correct” rules-as-written answer in there somewhere.
MM Page 10: Actions.
“When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action, as described in the Player’s Handbook.”
Find Familiar: “A familiar can’t attack, but it can take other actions as normal.”
Any monster can take any action as described in the PHB unless there is some specific notation against it, and the Familiar is no different. Of course, most familiars can’t speak, so they cannot activate magic items that require a command word, but most other items are fair game.
I won’t argue with your rules interpretations. They seem spot-on and well-researched to me. I will reiterate, however, that deciding what companions can and cannot do varies heavily by table. The GM in my imp campaign, for example, has decided that the imp is treacherous, and will only do exactly as he’s told. For example
Me: “Alright minion. Hold onto this necklace of fireballs. Don’t use it until I give the command.”
GM: The imp’s face lights up with glee.
Me: “Don’t trade it for booze either.”
To be clear, the DM can change anything about the game, anything at all. That is their prerogative. However, this would be a fundamental breaking of game rules, a big and negative change to the game that would have me very much reconsidering if I want to continue with said DM.
Consider your example. Your Familiar *always* obeys your commands according to the spell. No exceptions.
You told the Imp to *hold onto* the necklace. That is an order.
What does your DM have the Imp do? It plans *not to hold onto* the necklace.
Your DM just violated the rules of the spell. Is the DM allowed to do that? Sure, the same way they are allowed to say “Hypnotic Pattern will also hypnotize you because you have to see it to cast it” or “Clown Shoes hits someone else every time he rolls a 1.” They could make that change, but it’s very much a change, and i’m under no obligation to keep playing with that group if that’s how they want to play.
The story in the write-up comes from 5e, and I know you’re a 5e kind of player. But I think my tolerance for this “blatantly against the rules” type of ruling stems from my experiences in other games. I’ve had my Pathfinder behir cohort pitch temper tantrums when he couldn’t eat a farmer’s pig. I’ve had my unicorn familiar in Exalted plot “betwayal” after getting corrupted by a bunch of evil unicorns. Hell, I’ve seen my father in law’s fighter in 5e Ravenloft have to contend with a rebellious “murder hand” that the Igor wizard sewed back on.
These things are all very different from the clearly spelled out rules of the “find familiar” spell, but in practice they tend to get treated similarly. Or at least, that’s been my experience in play.
Like I said in another comment, I won’t deny I’ve felt like my imp familiar has been hijacked a time or two. Even so, the humor of the adversarial familiar/master relationship helps to make up the difference. Would I run it differently? Very likely yes, but it hasn’t been a deal breaker for me so far. YMMV.
The imp story is pretty funny, and I don’t mind being betrayed by an ally. That’s all good storytelling.
However, you leave my class features alone. Don’t make the Fighter’s nat 1s hit other people. Don’t make the Rogue only capable of using Sneak Attack while Hidden. Don’t make my Familiar betray me.
This would all be great if the Imp were a separate entity tagging along with the party instead of your class feature that you lost out on because the DM wanted to be clever.
Yah. It always goes back to the question of fun vs. balance. I know that some people pump a fist when they spot a deck of fumble cards (“It’s wacky and fun!”). I, on the other hand, now have violent Clown Shoes flashbacks.
I absolutely agree with MSK in how familiars, mounts, etc should be run, and when I DM I let the players control their actions but try to encourage different personalities. I also try to have my familiars and mounts with different personalities than my character when I play. It gives a great excuse to talk to yourself, I mean RP off yourself.
One time I was playing a one shot character, and just for fun I ran a halfling barbarian/beast master ranger who road his hog mount. His name was Hagrid Durr, and he was a buff, dark skinned halfling who was always shirtless, had a goatee and mohawk, and wielded a warhammer. His hog had a ring of feather fall on one tusk and a ring of jumping on the other. Yes, I snuck in a hog rider from Clash of Clans, and the RP of both the hog and the rider was glorious. The hog was taciturn, but spoke (he was awakened) in a much deeper voice than Hagrid so whenever he did give input it was unexpected and hilarious Fortunately the others were going goofy characters too, so there was a lot of fun to be had all around (one guy was playing a super vain sorcerer who liked to admire himself in the mirror he always carried and tried to get everyone else, including the bad guys and the ancient dragon we were hired to kill to say how incredibly handsome he was. Hagrid, however, only had eyes for hog.)
On the extreme opposite end, I had a wizard who had a familiar named Bobrothoughghanidal (Bob for short). The DM decided that actually, he would be running the familiar, which lead to some funny RP that the others loved, but was incredibly frustrating for me because he would consistenly refuse to do familiar duties, like scouting up ahead or even get in range of bad guys so I could cast touch spells through him. There were a couple of times he even refused to be summoned, or was summoned after smoking pot and was effectively worthless. Eventually, Bob left on a side quest with some others and became his own seperate entity. I didn’t bother summoning another familiar for fear the situation would repeat itself. Again, the RP was fun, but I felt like I was robbed of a class feature and wish the DM had brought in some NPC to do it rather than hijack my familiar. Thank Pelor the DM didn’t individually control the pixies the DM summoned via Conjure Woodland Beings (yes, we absolutely used that trick. The DM had a bit of a reputation for stupidly hard encounters and tpks.)
Pros and cons. Funny moments are awesome, but I can’t deny I’ve felt like my familiar has been hijacked a time or two. As it turns out, “Fireball the bastards!” is open to interpretation, and I am considerably less fireproof than my imp.
Anywho, I’ve always thought the Paizo guys did a good job giving a rundown of the options: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/campaignSystems/companions.html
Ironically, the DM is supposed to pick which creatures you get, essentially ending the Swarm of Pixies trick.
So what’s the trick? Is it just a grab bag of disposable casters, or is there some additional abuse buried in there?
Pixies can notably cast Polymorph. They can turn the whole party into a pack of Half-Dragon Giant Apes with high DPR and the breath weapon of an Adult dragon. They then fly away, preventing Concentration from ever breaking. It trivializes the middle tiers of play.
Upon further review, it seems that Polymorph is a good spell. Duly noted. 😀
Every time I roll up a Summoner, the dynamic between the two of them is at the center of the concept. One of my pet peeves as a player is when the GM role plays my second half for me.
Of course, to some GMs, its basically an NPC that I get to control in combat, not a second character. Thankfully they’re either in the minority or they just don’t want to put the time into it during the limited time game slots (so long as it doesn’t disrupt the game.) You get a wide variety of opinions in the fluid rotations of PFS.
Now see, this is why I love asking these questions. There are perspectives out there that start with completely different assumptions than my own. I generally play in home games, but you can bet your last component pouch I’d adjust my calculus tout de suite if I was running in organized play.
I’ve gotta ask though… How exactly are you RPing the relationship between PC and eidolon? I mean, are you having conversations with yourself?
Yeah, in a home game it’s much easier for the GM to learn about the Eidolon, its quirks, its personality, and give a respectable performance. But to answer your question, it depends on the duo.
Warden Fairbanks is a stern Chelish man who acts as the parole officer of a Devil who broke a contract. Before each scenario, he gives a disclaimer as to the nature of his charge and asks permission to use him. He usually speaks to his Eidolon by giving orders or warnings over his behavior, while Prisoner #129030 (the Eidolon) is so happy to be around other people for a change that he strongly prefers to speak with them instead of his keeper.
The Halfling (soon to be Oread maybe? Long story.) Estrek rides his arachnid/demon friend V’Sarki into combat. The two act as one when indulging in speed or violence, though they sometimes bicker during slower moments. Most open interactions involve V’Sarki asking the group if he can eat the remains of their foes. Fun fact: Their best friend in the Society is a Paladin of Shelyn and I love it when we can play together.
Thankfully, Summoner/Eidolon teams have the power to communicate mentally, allowing me to keep myself from becoming too insular. This also allows me to use one or the other to be the primary actor when interacting with the party, choosing based on my mood, the adventure’s circumstances, or whichever one generates the most interest from the other players.
At our table it definitely comes down to what the creature is and what its bond with the player is. For example my Cleric that i might have mentioned before, had a snake staff and a griffon mount and the DM allowed me to control both. Whereas in the case of your imp we would rule that he is up to the DM because Imps are free willed, and not just that but theryre evil aswell. Thats how we treated the wizards familiar (which was a “chlorine elemental” that lived in his spellbook and took the form of a cat btw)
Huh. I thought you were going another way with that. Since you mentioned the nature of the bond with the player, I figured you were going to talk about the difference between a chain pact imp and the variant familiar option.
Like I said man, this mess absolutely varies by table. That’s probably a good thing.
Yay Scabby! The most adorable of the companions.
Is that a wand of scorching ray?
Also in agreement with MSK.
Currently I’m playing my homebrew Summoner class and I’m having fun roleplaying the summoned creature too. So far they’ve complained about stuff in a language nobody knows and been irritated at a goblin for *failing* to kill them while they had 1 hp left.
Skitters wanted to hold the wand, but her pincers just weren’t strong enough.
It is a wand of enervation. Poor Wizard. Dude can choose between saying goobye to 420 gp per shot or risk getting dinged for 1d4 negative levels. Bad day at the office.
I’m increasingly of the opinion that I’m in agreement with MSK.
If the Patreon poll continues on its current course, I’m going to have to get a lot more familiar with the summoner class myself in the near future.
I like to use the first session when the familiar/mount/companion appears to kind of test the waters. If the player is invested in RP-ing it then I agree with MSK’s sage insight, and let them fully control their secondary character.
If the player sees it as just a way to deliver touch spells or what have you, I RP it. It is still under the control of the player in combat, but in downtime Fluffles the raven familiar (or Ultranox the Dark Avenger, as he likes to reffer to himself) flies about town dropping sharp objects on cats so that the local ravens may feel safe at last.
I think that “90% controlled by the PC, 10% by the GM (use discretion)” is my default state of play. So long as the critter gets some kind of personality, I think I’m a happy camper.
My GM lets us control our own animals, although there have been situations where he doesn’t. Once, we got hit with a spell that covers us in stone. Irlana made the saving throw, Mick didn’t. When we got him out, he freaked and started flying away. (Wings of Flying on his saddle.) I had to make a Ride check to stay in the saddle and a few turns later a Handle Animal check to calm him down.