The Fire
Now that you mention it, this is beginning to seem like a pattern. What was once a vampiric ass-kicking machine has become fractured. We’ve got vamps indulging personal hobbies, newly turned horses that don’t seem to be part of the hive mind, and now a trio of leeches that don’t even know the raid mechanics. It’s almost as if they’re having trouble coordinating their efforts for some reason…
You’ll see this biz all the bloody time in MMOs. You just want to jump in, crush some dungeons, and enjoying your gaming experience. But there’s always some rube in the party who doesn’t know a Blackrock Foundry from an Emerald Nightmare. It’s all manner of frustrating to watch your group struggle just because a minority are incompetent. And if that’s something we’re comfortable saying about MMO players, it is interesting to note that we’d NEVER treat our tabletop buddies like that.
I mean, when you sit down to roll dice it’s safe to assume that you’re among IRL friends. Everyone is just there to have fun and enjoy telling a fantasy story to one another. Who cares if no one’s bothered to read the rulebook, prep spells, a take helpful actions in combat?
Me. The answer is me, you guys. It annoys the shit out of me when my fellow players have no idea what’s going on. Granted, there is such a thing as “new players.” And granted again, not everyone has made a literal career out of this hobby. But at some point you’ve got to put in a little effort and know what your doing. If it’s session #10 and you’re still asking, “Which one do I roll?” I’m going to get a little peeved. Sue me.
What about the rest of you gusy though? Do you mind when your fellow players just phone it in? Do you get miffed like me? Any do you think it’s fair to expect other players to know not to stand in the fire? Sound off in the comments with your own takes on oblivious PCs and unprepared noobs!
C’mon, isuckyousuck. You should know that you don’t mine blood. You mine fish. This is basic stuff.
I feel like Alchemist didn’t think this scenario through well enough, given how flammable the structure is and his proximity to it. Unless he drank an extract of Fire Resistance beforehand. And that’s not his shop he’s about to spectacularly set ablaze.
This is the part where I raise my hand and say I am that player that doesn’t understand the rules half the time.
Granted, it’s probably compounded by the fact that I usually try to play games that aren’t D&D/Pathfinder, but I do find myself confused on how Attack rolls work every time it comes up.
Oh yes, as a self admitted rules lawyer/attorney I DO mind when other players have no idea what’s going on.
Like you said, new players are fine. But you’re only a new player for so long. After a couple sessions, you should know the basics. I won’t blame you if you don’t remember the exact formula to calculate your spell DC off the top of your head, but I WILL blame you if we’re half a dozen sessions in and you still don’t remember that the total is written at the top of your spell list on your sheet.
The problem to me comes from how complicated it is to even *have* a session. I need to set aside several hours in a day, typically a whole afternoon, and coordinate with other people who need to do the same, so we can find a time where we’re all available to play. If we get to play two weeks in a row, I consider it a great thing. It’s NOT EASY to get a session going. So when I finally get to play, and someone can’t be hassled to remember basic mechanics and grinds the whole thing to a halt, it gets under my skin. Because they’re disrespecting the amount of effort it takes to actually get that game going. And because we get to play like twice a month so when it’s finally time to do it I want to get stuff DONE dammit.
The worst is when they act like a rule is too complicated to remember. There ARE complicated games out there, but oftentimes the rule they’re getting wrong is not that much of a hurdle. They’re just not willing to put in the effort to commit it to memory.
I had one player that weaponized incompetence. Drove me up a wall. I didn’t have to do anything though, the other players got tired of it just as quickly as I did and tore him a new one. He straightened up after that.
The flip side of the coin is the rules lawyer who interrupts the game anytime anything not “canon” pops it’s head up. One of my favorite memories is getting one of those who wanted to join my regular game. He was told I run a homebrew that is only loosely based on DragonQuest (SPI) and AD&D, but hit the ground trying to control the game by arguing about this rule or that rule, or that something wasn’t that way, the monster wouldn’t do that. He didn’t get past his second session after I shut him down for the 10th time. Slammed his books shut and after telling all and sundry that “THIS GAME SUCKS.” went stomping out, never to return.
well after speedreading 7 years of comics in nearly a week i would say this is definitely one of the best ttrpg webcomics ive seen
for the question: i tend to actually be the odd one out, as i tend to be quite forgetful at times, Ive forgotten my own class LVL multiple time after a session and unless it was very important i can forget a lot of details of the campaign as time goes of between sessions
D’awww. Thanks for the kind words! I like to think we don’t suck. 🙂
I think you gotta play at least twice a month. Because I’ve experienced the “long session gap” too. If you play less, you not only tend to space out on mechanics, but plot points as well.
(Ask me how it’s been coming back to a lvl 18 Pathfinder game after a dissertation-long hiatus.)
“Who cares if no one’s bothered to read the rulebook, prep spells, a take helpful actions in combat?”
Ditto. But I do make exceptions for “and boy/girlfriends”. If a newby is there with their handler, their handler can handle them. If their S.O. can’t manage them, then that’s on their S.O., and I will let the So-so know.
However if someone is there for themselves, they do need to start learning at least the basics of “what dice to roll”.
I play and teach Warhammer 40k tabletop online. The amount of people i see come by who didn’t read the rules, were too lazy to do so or search the book a little drives me up the wall. The game is complicated enough as it is, i need these people to be willing to do some homeworks.
We’ve got one player in his late 50s who never wears his glasses and cannot read his character sheet (I began printing simplified sheets in 14 pt. font just for him) and has to ask which die he needs (he’s been playing since he was a teenager). His youngest daughter used to play with us just to hang out with her dad. She was usually distracted and her actions were often limited to “I shoot an arrow” or “I delay action.” Any swag acquired went into a bag of holding and was promptly forgotten about.
One session I’d prepared a mission specifically tailored to my PCs and players. At the last minute, the youngest daughter couldn’t make it and her older sister (who gamed, but not with us) filled in and ran her sister’s character.
The night was filled with “Hunh, so why isn’t she equipped with*this*” and “so *that’s* what it does” as she proceeded to help the team steamroll the boss battle by actually running the character well. I was totally unprepared for the archer to actually live up to her potential, and what was supposed to be a challenge became a cakewalk.
It used to bother the heck out of me when players would phone it in. Now, however, I’ve learned to ask a simple question, and then drive for an honest answer: “Are you here for THIS activity, or are you here for AN activity?”
Sometimes, I’m down with a player whose attending because they don’t have anything else to do, and really want to be doing something… that something usually being socializing. Sometimes, I relegate them to something that allows them to participate, but doesn’t require them to carry any weight; like being a talking sword, familiar or the car’s AI. This allows them to hang with the group, and play a character, but doesn’t ask them to do anything particularly important. (Non-combatant NPCs like valets, or even a DNPC can also be a good way to integrate less-engaged players.)
If they don’t like that idea, then I tell them that they’re going to have to keep up, or I’ll disinvite them from the game.
Pathfinder 1 game at the flgs got dropped because after 4 sessions the two new players STILL couldn’t remember to add their modifiers to their rolls on the dice. It’s the fundamental action of the game for crying out loud! It really sucks, too, because the GM had been working on that setting for years and I was really invested to the story.
This fire is out of control
Alchemist gonna to burn this city, burn this city 😛
Pretty sure I have seen that trick on some movie but don’t remember which one 🙂
It doesn’t bother me too much if someone doesn’t know the rules or what exactly is going on….as long as I can’t tell it’s obviously because they just aren’t trying. Sadly I’ve dealt with almost as much “clearly not trying” as I have “new player” stuff. Like sure, the first few sessions maybe you don’t really have a grasp on what your character can do or what kind of things make sense for you to try to do.
But when you’re on session 10+ and you’re still looking at your character in combat and looking for other players to tell you exactly what to do (like maybe you still can’t grock how the dice work, that’s fine, but having no idea that your abilities are flaming sword and supersonic yell, not so much) or when you just can’t do anything with story hooks the GM throws at you specifically designed for your character while directly addressing you…. yeah that stuff annoys me a lot. I want to play with people who are invested in the game, not people who are just treating it like a mild curiosity to pass the time with.
If you are on your phone during a game, it had better be an emergency, or looking up some info relevant to the game, or taking notes (drawing related to the game is also acceptable, and something I frequently do during a session), but otherwise, if you are “that person” and not invested enough in the game to pay attention to the game, then maybe you should find another game.
That’s it, no other comments, that is and has always been, and probably will always be my feelings on the topic.
As for players not knowing how a game works ten sessions in, well, some people take longer to learn than others, and I can always forgive someone not fully grasping things, even 20 or 30 sessions later (especially if they are part of a group that changes systems every few sessions… I have been a part of those too). Now if it is still that way with the same group some 100+ session in… maybe time to have a talk with someone about their grasp of mechanics and maybe interest in actually playing 🙂
It sorta’ bothers me, but sorta’ not. I got our rogue killed because he was trying to be cool but didn’t understand the strategy. Now obviously, I see this happening on the table, BUT I’m trying to play IC. So I asks the GM if my character, *who has just ordered all the party to not cross a certain point* if I see him zip off in the shadows. GM tells me to roll perception because he comprehends what is about to happen, but I roll poorly so no, I do not see him zip off.
I know he was bothered by it too; the guy had been playing his assassin like a 13yo first timer. WELL, the encounter starts, and the ogres are charging us, and getting squeezed by the crevice so they can’t fight us more than one at a time, which is important because there’s like ten of them. Our party wizard starts doing Those Wizard Things(tm), throwing fireballs at the back line of the ogres while their frontline fights us in melee. The assassin got blasted out of stealth and beaten to death in two rounds by frustrated, angry ogres.
I wasn’t trying to get him killed, and I like to think he learned a lesson in teamwork that day. And actually, while he’s still sorta’ doofy at the table, I feel like he’s been steadily improving since then.