Unwatchful
You want to know what conversation I’d like to never have again? The friggin’ watch order conversation. Feel free to hum along if you know the words.
“I’ll take first watch.”
“I’ll take second.”
“Wait, don’t you need eight hours to recover spells?”
“I can just trance for four hours.”
“Well I need first or last.”
“Who’s on watch with me? It has to be someone with darkvision.”
Blech. It’s the D&D equivalent of arguing over the check at a restaurant, and shit’s dull as dirt. In my experience, the question, “Who’s on watch?” is just GM-speak for, “I’m going to roll three times on the random encounter table, and I want to know who gets to react.” And if that’s your use-case for setting a watch, I’d just as soon default to the same advice we gave way back in the day: Have this argument exactly once and then write down your watch order.
That said, I think there is some utility in to watch orders in roleplay-heavy games. In particular the, “Who’s on watch with me?” question is a license to create RP moments between character pairings. Think of your last Dragon Age playthrough. Remember the party camp? You know, the place where, “Companions will discuss personal, even intimate, matters?” You don’t have to be a bard to see the possibilities. Licentious liaisons, tearful confessions, and overly dramatic backstory dumps are all on the table.
Here’s the thing though: If it’s possible to imagine “the boring watch conversation” actually having a purpose, what else might we be missing? Is there a way to spice up bedding down for the night?
And so, for today’s discussion, why don’t we talk about the “party camp” in general? How do you use it in your own games? Does it tend to get hand-waved, or do interesting things happen there? Head down to the comments, and tell us all about the monsters, romances, and clandestine meetings that have happened around your party’s campsites!
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The Forest God from Night in the Woods
That is a guess that exists in this universe.
Probably should have clarified that “it looks like the NITW Forest God”
Make it clear that this isn’t a super serious guess.
I had originally planned to do watch schedules with my party for random encounters, but they ended up doing conversations and roleplay of their own accord and I quickly pivoted once I realized how much more fun it is to deal with things like “my best friend almost died and then brushed off my concern and made me feel trivialized” or “I gave up sailing to spend more time with my family, but here I am adventuring” or “I think your god is fake, let’s have a religious argument about it and maybe have a toxic romance” or “I’m angry at a party member for doing something I think is morally wrong so I’m going to plot to reveal the secret cover up to the public” than it is to fight three wolves or a few goblins with trained poisonous snakes.
As for the creature—the giant frog with antlers from Castle Crashers maybe?
The other thing is that, if the party is making camp in the wilderness, I’ll make them roll a survival check to find a suitable spot, and having the druid roll really low makes for some fun roleplay when the fighter notices all the poison ivy at the campsite that’s been picked out.
Randomly incompetent druid. Makes em crie ever tim.
Fighter: “This is what happens when you consult ‘~the stars~’ instead of your eyes.”
Circle of Stars Druid: “Well maybe the stars just don’t like you. Have you considered that?”
Fighter: “Well maybe the stars aren’t actually tangibly affecting our real actual lives, have you considered that?”
Druid: “No, that doesn’t seem likely.”
Setting up camp isn’t too difficult in my experience. It’s mostly just people calling out they’ll be on first, second, third watch etc. There’s a bit of fussing early on to figure out has darkvision/good perception, but it doesn’t take long for people to either fall into a habit or write up an order list.
Despite the minor nature, we still run through setting up camp, due to the role-play that can occur just before the long rest. Winding down from the latest adventure, and plotting out the next moves, is a common source of role-play within the party, and it’s nice to know where you are and what the atmosphere is during this. Plus, who’s cooking, what they made, and how good of a cook they can be a fine source of conversation, humour and bonding all in one.
I’ve become “grumpy old man yells at clouds” lately.
Yeah, it’s a pet peeve rather than a major issue. I’d rather streamline the busywork bits of the game, but like the OP says, there really is a good use for all this busy work. Just not the “protect camp from random encounters” that’s advertised.
Huh… I don’t recall this even coming up in our current campaign. Granted, we’re mostly been based in town or on ship where the PCs don’t need to be the ones on watch, but our current GM just doesn’t seem to be doing the whole “who’s on watch?” thing.
In previous campaigns, we’ve never formalised a standing order, but it’s usually been settled pretty quickly… and yes, usually taking into account racial sleep patterns, dark vision, and spell preparation requirements. “Party camp” isn’t normally a thing, unless something plot-relevant has provided motivation for two PCs to make a scene of it… e.g. a new character has joined the party, or someone has some difficult decision coming up, etc.
Kind of makes me wonder if “party camp” would be a good idea. Like, formalize being interested in one another’s feelings / backstories / personalities. The way you do that is, “Hey, that thing that happened in the adventure… How are you dealing with that?” That just seems like good RP to me.
There are certainly games where that’s a big deal — it’s something I enjoy in Masks and other PbtA games, for example, where the system is largely built around inter-character relationships. But it tends to be a relatively small part of our D&D games… not non-existent, but not a big focus of the game.
DnD, Pathfinder and equivalent games that is always a bit of pain, the times we have mooks and hirelings things get easier as we can emply methods we’re all familiar from army times(being from country with conscription has it advantages at times) leading to less nasty suprises.
Warhammer fantasy, yeah you do NOT want to sleep outaide unless you really have to and then I recomend at least company of troops to go with. 40K Only War, yeah standard military and mostl likely minimun squad size so if you are lucky you get solid 7, unlucly 3-4 split bjt the NPC comrades can be assinged the bad shifts.
I need to get victims for Judge Dredd to see if they can manage Cursed Earth patrol.
So how does watch order work in IRL military? Does it tend to look much different that the D&D version?
Shifts are one hour, and at basic level you have one guard, the guy who wakes people up for next shift, looks over fire andndoes close partol. then is perimeter, which requires more than a single squad, and at least for us was done with two guys, so that one could go and make an silent alarm(what’s better than suprise attack? ambushing the attacker) while other keeps eye onnthings and opens fire if need be. Lastly there could be roaming, but it’s main problem is that by itself it leaves gaps(ours is a heavy forest and hill terrain, line of sight rarely covers the platoons tents) and you need to make sure you adon’t go past perimeter if you have it too.
But yeah at worst you got hour or two sleep between shifts. But usually the close and perimeter were only ones needed.
This does remind me about something though, 30ft is about 5 meters, you definately can see further once your eyes adjust and theres natural light, in rain(water or snow) or thick fog, yeah then we get closer to that 30feet. Though thanks to how north we are in summer it’s still sunny enough in middle of night that you can see like it’s dawn or dusk.
Is it the Elder God of the Nightmare Grove?
My first thought, as well, but you beat me to it.
I can confirm that this is indeed your guess. >_>
I am gonna throw my gaming hat into the ring here and say “A Raccalope from Battleblock Theatre”
Wow, that’s a real deep cut.
I once cursed the party Ninja to have a crippling fear of the party Paladin. Every night, she would have horrible dreams about being murdered by the Paladin, and she occasionally would have to roll vs. Fear in her presence. Luckily, the Keep Watch spell allowed her to stay up all night and avoid nightmares! Unluckily, the only person who could cast it was the Paladin. They both RP’d this extremely well, and every time the party made camp there was some evolution of the drama.
I also like to provide interesting locales for the party to camp out! Like the time they unwittingly camped out on a necromancer’s lawn, or when they stopped by a farm and woke up with the campsite covered in frog-slimes. Good times.
Are frog slimes common at farms?
In that particular region, they were the local vermin. They’re called woggins. Oh, and the story continues!
So, the party packs up camp, tossing woggins left and right, trying to avoid touching them because they’re slightly toxic. The child sorcerer has a woggin land on her face, rolls a nat 1, and has an allergic reaction that the healer has to quickly deal with. Eventually the party uses a bunch of creative means to punt the woggins into the long grass… where a pile of them congeal into a single giant woggin that attacks in a grumpy rage. Miniboss time!
The first round against the giant slime goes well, both sides taking some hits, when the Wizard pulls out the Rod of Fate. This custom magic item has a few dozen random effects ranging from the silly to the destructive. In this case, of all the effects, she rolled the one that casts Form of the Dragon 2 on the target. Now, instead of the joke encounter that I’d planned, the party had to face off against a slime-spewing woggin dragon.
Man, I miss the midgame. Since the party got their airship we don’t get shenanigans like that anymore.
Looks suspiciously like a Dire Undead Jackalope 😉
I dunno. Does it have enough random bone spikes to be “dire?”
I tried to post a comment, earlier, but I don’t know if it worked.
Either way, I think it might be a giant version of a Raccalope from Battleblock Theatre.
I think you have to get manually approved if you post from a new account. Hence the delay.
Oh hey, I think that’s the big owl monster from the front of the Icewind Dale adventure book (which I do not own so I can’t tell you the name of).
Personally I like the idea of the camp scene, but I as a DM don’t know how to make it interesting.
Good guess. Note the stag’s antlers rather than ram’s horns though.
One campaign’s solution was to hire an independent NPC cadre that typically work as caravan guards. They set/break camp, keep watch, and guard the campsite while the PCs go dungeoneering. (Their contract stipulates that while they’ll help haul loot once the dungeon is cleared, THEY DO NOT serve as dragon fodder, meat shields, or trap-detectors, citing OSHA regulations.)
In a different campaign, Cleric wound up with a Ring of Sustenance. The rest of the party then abused the heck out of that guy for the rest of forever, making him take EVERY watch (sometimes alone, sometimes with company for an hour or two) and letting him nap during the party’s 2-hour lunch at a tavern (he doesn’t need food or ale, right?) In retaliation, Cleric then quietly stopped putting any points into Spot or Listen and took ranks in Craft: Knitting instead.
“Thou shalt not piss of thy cleric” how is that commandment not clear with people, bugger can cast, wear armor and punch stuff. They are like Paladin without stupid restrictions and fighter with brains.
Camp is one of those times where people can unwind after random encounters, interact to discuss reactions to them, what spells might be needed tomorrow if more or similar encounters happen, etc.
I use them when people can’t find an inn, but camping should be brought up as often as the domestic sleeping arrangements are. A wanderer, a wild animal, other encounters can be just as suitable as anywhere else.
But you get out of it as much as you engage with the DM. If you set up traps, arrange watches, use items that interact with the setting, you’ll have a more enjoyable experience there. If you just say “alright I’m taking first watch”, then you get nothing out of it.
That’s why every one of my Pathfinder characters comes equipped with a couple bells, some sturdy string, and a modified Folding Chair (just the seat, not the back). That way, when you set up the fire, and some rudimentary traps, you have a backdrop for stories and conversation.
As a GM I use camping often. As a player, I try to find ways to make it fun for other players, but it really depends on the GM.
In my games, scenes get made and used if I feel they add to the game. I don’t meaningfully bother with who’s on watch because if I jump people in camp at night, I want it to be MEMORABLE and not just night time encounter 43.
Anyhowdle, I use camp scenes to give my players a chance to talk about their next move, and also to have raw IC time while they try to puzzle out what’s going on with the story. On my end, it’s mostly a collection of leads that loosely domino into each other, with a few penciled in reasons.
One day, I’m going to ask all non chalantly “Oh by the by, what was your watch order?” and my players are going to FREAK THE HELL OUT.
That creature in the background reminds me of an owlbear with antlers.
Now, to be fair, if your party is accompanied by a rotating cast of NPC allies, some of whom are casters and some who aren’t, shuffling around watch order on the regular makes sense, no? Asking for a friend who is me.
(Entertainingly my current character in the AD&D2e campaign I’m in is a half-elf who took the Less Sleep feature from Player’s Option, so despite being literally two full casters as a multiclass wizard/cleric I am fully capable of taking a middle watch!)
If it weren’t for the giant size, I’d think it was a Wendigo.
And if its eyes were red instead of yellow, I’d say Mothman.
The eyes are reminiscent of Icewind Dale’s Frostmaiden, but she has ram horns rather than antlers.
A Peryton is a possible option, assuming those grow to such a monstrous scale.
It’s funny to me that this is the topic for your comic as my group and another discord were just recently discussing a trend in a very popular show about D&D that seems to be stuck in a sort of perpetual “party camp” status… every single episode recently has had them stopping any progression of possible plot to stop and have everyone do “patrols” while talking each individually to each other to delve into their characters backstories… and it is getting old to those of us that have been watching. No one in the groups I have talked to has been enjoying the show as much this campaign…
And it got us talking about the concept in general.
In my own groups game, we have spent time doing party camp scenes, but only when they are relevant, when there is something really worth talking about and delving into, not stopping the entire game to make SURE we have a scene with each other every single in game night. Not “forcing” a scene just to have it (which this very popular D&D show feels like it is doing… ).
I personally think party camp scenes are great, especially early on into a game, when getting to know each other is actually a good thing. For both game characters and party players. But there comes a time, when you have to know when enough is enough… at least “for now”. When you are spinning wheels and just being self involved (even if the entire party is doing it… how do you think the DM feels?).
A time and a place, and of course everyone having fun is always a consideration too, but they are called BACK stories for a reason ;D
Then again, if that is what you are into, then more power, but I think in any group of a certain size, someone in that group is going to think of a camp scene in the same way others might think of a “shopping episodes”… so just be sure to read the room is the only advice I think I would attempt to give.
Why watch? The death screams of the first victims are alarm enough 🙂
Good mindset for someone who doesn’t mind being the first victim!
I like it, but people still keeps watch and sets alarms. In any case that makes things interesting when you hunt them 😀
What! Do you all not recognize the Elder God, visiting us from Oglaf’s Forbidden Woods? He’s silhouetted for a reason!
https://imgur.com/gallery/gu8gQbk (This clip is SFW, I should specify)
Exactly as you mentioned, I often employed “who’s on watch” to attempt to get my players to RP. In some cases I had to specifically note that’s what I was doing. Sometimes it even worked too. *sigh*
But yeah, if there was a way to achieve that end without the whole “well logically we need this that and the other thing” conversation it would have been nice.
Though I’ve felt that more in games I’ve played in where the GM clearly was of the “let’s see who RNG decides to throw monsters at”… which of course did necessitate the tiresome conversation version. Though at least in most of those cases myself or someone else had the sense to advocate for “and that’s how we do it forever”.
Though I’ve certainly had at least a couple games where that was the intend but due to the nature of PbP one rest was so far removed in IRL time from another that nobody remembered and we had to do the whole convo over again. (Though in those cases it was still usually a short version of maybe or two people suggesting rotations and the rest of the players saying “Yeah that works”.)
This is certainly one of the areas where D&D style setup clashes with itself. Where on the one hand we want it to be a mix-and-match party members RP tool and on the other it’s a mechanical problem to be solved efficiently to negate “whoops bad luck, the random 1d4 owlbears coup-de-graced half the party before the human fighter with wis as their dump stat noticed”.
If you remove the threat of the later, some people will respond with “then why do this at all?”, and either way it makes the dangers lurking in the dark seem rather toothless. On the other hand….it’d be nice if we could be on the same page that it’s an RP excuse for tables that want that.
Not sure I can say there’s a “correct” solution, though I think I’ve seen my share of “incorrect” ones, lol.
A siege owlbear?
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/owlbear/owlbear-siege/
Generally last watch is when it’s starting to get light out, so that’s when you put the person without darkvision in. My Dwarves tend to take first watch for a selfish reason: Uninterrupted sleep is (in real life) more restful.
Fun fact: Between darkvision, natural perception proficiency and the fact that they only need to spend 4/8ths of a long rest trancing rather than the 6/8ths sleeping everyone else requires, the average Elf is a smelly, ugly, annoying, overcomplicated alarm system.
My main group of players swaps around their watch order fairly frequently, helped by the rotating cast of support NPCs. There is often a little bit of roleplaying between the players, since it’s a pretty bickering party (in a good way). I don’t do random encounters, but I have had a number of planned night encounters, and even when I don’t I try to sprinkle in some foreshadowing hints or atmospheric description so there was SOME value to the scene. If something attacks, the ones on watch get to react normally and the sleeping PCs start prone and unarmored (and possibly need Perception rolls to wake up), but nobody is getting coup de graced. We don’t particularly worry about darkvision in this context – everyone on a watch gets one Perception check and possibly an unexplained Will save due to the PC who keeps covertly using Detect Thoughts on everyone else. Usually, they see nothing. But sometimes, they see:
– The invisible bone devil bounty hunter who’s been hired to bring them in for killing the head of the town guard merely for engaging in fiendish rituals. (Okay, maybe they didn’t “see” that one.)
– The dullahan seeking revenge on the PC who murdered her. (Though she mostly shows up, puts her daily curse on the PC and leaves.)
– A squad of drow snipers with Vital Strike and Sneak Attack lining up shots. (The party is currently in a ruined city full of drow who stay underground during the day, leading to fairly light exploration days and brutal night attacks.)
– A random goat that’s looking in their direction. (They are paranoid about goats after… some incidents.)
– The troll-druid-turned-goat they killed in goat form earlier and harvested piles of meat from completing its regeneration and emerging from their bag, both naked and angry. (This is ONE of the reasons they are paranoid about goats.)
…Fortunately, they put the skeleton sniper on every watch rotation, since she doesn’t sleep, has darkvision and doesn’t get bored. Unfortunately, she can’t actually talk, so her ability to raise the alarm is mostly limited to firing guns at stuff her tiny magical brain finds suspicious.