Decorum
You guys remember back in “Heavy Lies the Crown” when I mentioned this storyline pretty much verbatim? Sure ya do. Wizard is indeed an elf princess now, and that means she’s got to make nice with her fellow elf princess Elf Princess. (You might recall this latter royal palling around with Horsepower in the past.) Anywho, I feel like the royal consul gig is a good use of Wizard’s skills. Being a beleaguered ambassador should suit her love of dramatic RP better than presiding over a stuffy throne room. Unfortunately, the other Heroes don’t suit dramatic RP at all.
I don’t know about you guys, but I empathize with Wizard on this one. Tonal whiplash has always been a struggle for me. Moving from serious-face quasi-Shakespearean language to fart jokes and sexual innuendo is a tough balancing act. We’ve actually talked about this before, and the in-game solution generally comes down to “read the room.” Weirdly though, I’ve found that watching anime also helps. That’s the only other genre I know of that manages to pivot consistently between high drama and goofy fun. (Trigun is my personal go-to for “appropriate RPG tone.”) In other words, I think it’s possible to have very special episodes and cheeky shenanigans in the same game. You just have to know how to pick your moments.
What do the rest of you guys think? Do you put much stock in “serious face” gaming? Or are you just here to kill orcs and take their stuff? Are the two modes mutually exclusive or, like Wizard and her keg-standing cohorts, can they come to some sort of uneasy equilibrium? Sound off with your thoughts down in the comments!
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Our games “try” to be serious depending on what we’re running but tend to beCOME a little odd. Think the tone of Borderlands or Fallout games with the weird wasteland trait. There’s a reason why I’m banned from playing an envoy warforged wild magic sorcerer/ satire bard mc. DM said oh god no you ARE NOT playing clap trap. Hadn’t even figured out background/story or level distribution when it got shot down. Was gonna take thieves’ tools as integrated tool for opening doors and “interfacing” with things.
Borderlands definitely falls within the “sometimes serious, mostly not” tone. I think that nixing Claptrap was a good idea though. That character is on-screen ALL THE TIME when it becomes a player character. With a small-doses kind of guy like Claptrap, that would get old in a hurry.
Ya kinda made it as a gag to see what would happen and play something different. Usually play artificers,rogues, or warlocks that typically are a mix of Mordecai and Dr. McCoy.
Funny you should mention that, since Claptrap IS a playable character in the moon/space DLC.
His vault hunter.exe action skill is wild magic and everything else about him screams bard
I like to run games that are silly on the surface but have an undercurrent of seriousness that makes people want to know what happens next. Its a bit of a delicate balancing act, but fortunately I have a group that’s mostly willing to play along, so things like “the rogue just assassinated the final boss of the dungeon instead of engaging in a dramatic fight” don’t usually blunt the actually interesting bits like “oh my god theyre firing elementals at us out of a great bombard!”
I feel like your courtroom etiquette scenes are more intense than mine.
Well, my players want to sit through an ACTUAL political song and dance about as much as I want to run one, which is to say, not at all. Thus, a diversion. Really, they should be thanking the dark elves, otherwise they would have had to persuade the dwarven council of their merits with actual words.
I dunno, Shakespeare was a big fan of fart jokes and sexual innuendo. Just gotta teach your players how to crack a joke in the right language.
Note that I said “serious-face quasi-Shakespearean.” I’m imagining the tone of the Lord of the Rings movies here. The closest you got to fart jokes there was falling on a carrot:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/18/5b/1b/185b1bfd9a828290cf65683d3effc148.jpg
I was about to say that too. Also all the female characters at the Globe were played by men in drag like in Monty Python’s Flying Circus
I prefer Dwarven style court intrigue, because subtlety is for chumps and elves. (But I repeat myself)
Punches in the face “Ay asshole! Dis iz wat we want ta’ happen, dis iz why.” If that fails to move the Dwarven council, you may have to engage in a drinking contest.
My favorite traditional Dwarven drinking game is called “Getting hammered”. Whoever downs their drink first gets to punch their opponent in the face. You lose when you pass out or tap out.
“It’s what Cleric’s character would do!”
An important thing to note in Dwarven politics is niceties. Using too many is seen as manipulative. Pleases, thank yous, etc will have the entire council side-eyeing you.
Attempting to hide your point in flowery language and purple prose is seen as the height of deception.
Dwarves value bluntness and honesty. Tell them exactly why you’re right and they should fuck off if you wanna get anywhere. Punching is acceptable if you can take being punched back. Drawing a weapon/using magic in some good ol’ fisticuffs is unacceptable.
Hardcore Dwarves play “Getting hammered” with an actual hammer.
I like Serious Face gaming. Ideally, at the table, I’d even prefer to stick to in-character as closely as possible and use the characters’ names and not the players’ names. I’d rather hear “Rothgar raises his mighty axe to swing” than “John raises his mighty axe to swing”, or “Could you help me with something, Millinesse?” than “Could you help me with something, Kate?”
I find staying in character keeps things focused, and keeping that focus helps prevent the game detailing into poop jokes every five minutes, and pop culture references damn-near constantly.
John and Kate might be nice people, but they could derail things if everything inspires them to make out of character Star Wars quotes. Rothgar and Millinesse don’t know Star Wars in character, and are less likely to have that issue.
Rothgar and Millinesse as one: “I have a bad feeling about this.”
Eh, unless they’re really forcing it, chances are that the in-characterness won’t give them opportunity for a constant slew of jokes, at least.
The occasional one, when the moment for it comes up, isn’t too bad.
I’m reading through this one at the moment:
https://www.amazon.com/Fantasy-Role-Playing-Game-New-Performing/dp/0786408154
Dude has an interesting take on allusions and quoting. He argues that characters and RPGs are made out of “fictive blocks” taken from other sources. It’s all to do with the idea that an RPG performance uses these previously-seen bits as a sort of rehearsal. To play is to manipulate tropes, consciously or unconsciously. (According to this argument anyway).
Kind of an interesting take on the old, “Stop quoting Monty Python and just hit the goblin.”
Elf Princess! How could you! Lumberjack Explosion is CLEARLY a unicorn, not some hornless peasant workhorse.
Also, someone seems to be missing! Guess that means it’s time for everyone’s favorite game of ‘Where in the court is Rogueish Tieflingego?’.
Is she:
a) Already in the treasury, imitating an avaricious avian with business acumen?
b) In free fall, following an unfortunate climb roll to scale the castle?
c) Underneath Wizard’s poofy dress, hiding from the guards and/or picking Elf Princess’s pockets?
d) One swift action away from triggering every alarm in the castle simultaneously?
e) Fleeing from a pack of Pirahna Poodles?
Elf Princess: Whatever it is, this Lumberjack Explosion is CLEARLY someone’s mount. Why you would think to bring a beast of burden into the palace is quite beyond me. Somebody take the poor creature to the stables!
…
Find the Thief, eh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uvt83YWWWY
Whilst most of the games I’m playing are somewhat serious-face games (official Pathfinder APs tend vary between ‘bog standard RPG’ to ‘Hills Have Eyes’ to ‘Call of Cthulhu meets megalomaniac superwizards’) and I can certainly play both a serious and silly chracter, I have to say I would certainly prefer games where one can goof off and have fun, where the serious-face moments serve to fuel the subsequent silly comedy, or the world itself is not taking itself seriously (‘Unfortunately, your actions have attracted the attention of the Walrus mafia.’).
A good example of the silly style I’d probably prefer is Acquisitions Incorporated games. Real risks, real canon settings… Infinite gags.
https://youtu.be/6tVQuPQos_U
I know AQ. They’ve got a good mix, and I enjoy the heck out of watching Perkins run. That said, for my own tastes they fall a little too far on the “not taking the fantasy seriously” side. I like cracking wise, but I’d rather give the game world some modicum of respect. If I know I’m getting into parody up front then I’m down to clown, but it’s not my preferred default setting.
In my group we don’t care that much. I like the Anime example, we don’t usually play, how to say it, shounen style. Young hot-blooded heroes that defeat the forces of evil not matter what. Still we sometimes play more Avatar: The Last Air-bender, goofy yes, serious yes, grimdark when you consider all in all yes, lighthearted yes. We don’t go full anime still, unnecessary screaming, hyperbolic destruction of the environment, excessive fanservice and awful fansub. Consider it we sometimes play like a full Malkavian coterie, we go from Fishmalk to tragic Malkavians and back again with everything that is in the middle. It is nice day when i am not the only crazy one on the table 🙂
Anime tone, not anime content. I think we’re on the same page.
Me: Can I play a Lycanthrope character?
DM: No, you can’t use templates on your character.
Me: Okay – Makes a Beastmoph Alchemist
DM: Seriously…?
Me: but it isn’t a template.
DM: …
That’s what I refer to as a “clever workaround”
Sounds to me like this DM is racist against werewolves.
I’ll say… As far as my personal preference for goofy vs. serious goes, well, I have been an avid reader of the late Sir Terry Pratchett’s Discworld novels.
So I try to keep things lighthearted, even though you can still ask some very hard questions.
Consider werewolves: It depends a lot on what kind you are talking about, but let us go with preys on humans (compulsively or voluntarily) and is capable to chose their prey.
Now you can go with a total monster that hunts and kills with no moral compass whatsoever, OR you could have one that considers themselves to be a good shepherd. I mean, for a predator to flourish, so must it’s prey, right? So if one carefully watches one’s flock and diligently culls the… unsavoury elements of the herd… Really now, you are doing them a favour, ain’t I right?
Oh and just for the record: That DR 10/silver looks good on paper, but you only get that by actually shifting to hybrid/wolf form, and then everybody and their (hunting) dogs will have silvered weapons…
Also, DR doesn’t work against fire. Or cold. Or acid. Or sonic. Or posison. Or… yeah, you get the idea…
You may recall my doggo’s name: https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/dino-wrangling
Amazing how many people overlook that mess.
My players seem to take to the first tone my NPC or BBEG takes. If I introduce a serious character that isn’t one dimensional they respond in kind or even bring the seriousness up a notch. But if I introduce a goofy character then they are doomed to forever remain goofy.
Is there ever a risk of introducing a comic relief character later in a serious campaign and forever goof-ifying the tone, or does the tone tend to get “set” after a few sessions?
My group tends to do occasional barrel rolls over the tonal line. It’s mostly my players though. I consistently get my funny concepts from one person, and my serious almost grimdark concepts from the other. The problem is that the Grimdark guy has a lot of swing in his roleplay, and can go as goofy as the others on the right night.
And that’s how we ended up with the Monk who specialized in the Strength of the Mountain style, which he was taught by an old man who lived on a mountain filled with supernatural creatures that pretended to be human. His parents were killed and his only family was his master. And after the second session he had turned into Arnold and was trying to benchpress people and heavy objects in town regardless of the townsfolk’s opinion on the matter.
And that’s not bringing up our current game, where I’m building a super serious spy Scion of Loki and I had to stop my Partner from building a guy who uses Baguettes and Croissants as weapons.
Hey, dwarf bread is traditional!
https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Battle_Bread
My group’s generally a pretty light-hearted/goofy one, but we’ve managed to pull off some drama every now and then. Case in point — our latest session saw our first full-on character death (it was almost a TPK — it’s a good thing the leader guy wasn’t dead and could tell his compatriots to capture them alive so they could be sacrificed properly later).
We went from “hee hee, the ranger remembered Primeval Awareness is a thing, detected an undead a mile out, and sprinted off in that direction while the rest of the group followed with varying degrees of begrudgingness” to “uhhhh, okay, everybody start thinking of characters for a rescue mission while I RP a bit with the barbarian who suddenly finds themself in Mechanus.”
Turning a TPK into an “escape the sacrifice” session is every DM’s right.
Yeah, I myself aim for that anime-style tone. Serious and dramatic in one scene, crazy action in another, extremely silly in yet another, or a mix of them in single scenes is all good fun. Really, for me it just adds more depth to characters to have it work this way. Nobody (well nobody any fun to be around anyway) is all one thing or another all the time. Really, not even goofy fun guy is actually any fun to be around if they’re incapable of being serious when it’s needed.
From a place of experience, I can say “agree.”
It’s a good thing Elf Princess didn’t say ‘who let a horse come in here’ or we’d have had a field day! =p
No no… I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in this kingdom: https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/secret-identity
Honestly I’m fine with either theme of the game, but it is the utmost importance that everyone at the table is on the same page about this. Preferably settled during Session Zero.
That’s the thing… I’m not sure it needs to be an either/or. The trick lies in getting the balance right.
Yeah, I suppose it’s less of an A/B switch and more of a spectrum of seriousness versus comedy.
‘Moving from serious-face quasi-Shakespearean language to fart jokes and sexual innuendo is a tough balancing act…’
IIRC there were fart jokes IN shakespeare
“A man may break a word with you, sir, and words are but wind
Ay, and break it in your face, so he break it not behind.”
Or, translated into plain english, it’s better to have someone lie to your face that fart in your face
serious face
That is all.
But seriously… I do fsvour serious gaming, but am alway ok to lightheartedness in the right moments. I am blessed with players who are good at reading the mood. And I provide a “soam” channel on Discord as an outlet for all the silliness – such as, recently, followed the discovery that my current campaign’s Big Bad has a passing resemblance to Mac Tonight.
Trigun and One Piece are the top of my list for best Anime in general, primarily because they manage to be silly, angsty, dramatic, spectacular in all the right ways. So many aim for spectacular or angsty, but wind up superficial and vapid in their implementation that you can’t help but give them crap for it.
People (well, mostly just bitter DC fans) dump on the MCU movies for going from angst to humor, but they never seem to understand that comedy doesn’t negate angst and tragedy, it underpins it and provides pathos.
Superheroes need to save the day, and they don’t have time to get sit down with a therapist when something horrible happens, because they are the only ones that can stop it from getting worse. So they make shitty jokes as a patch job so they can keep themselves going instead of breaking down into a useless emotional wreck.
A post credits scene had Stark trying to get therapy from a completely unqualified Banner. It was couched as a joke, but it was a legitimate emotional issue that drove his entire motivation through later movies.
Of course emotions are a personal thing, some people don’t handle the humor well, because their method of coping with tragedy is to wallow in it for a while. It’s not a wrong way of doing things, it’s just a different flavor.
One angle I think can be really interesting is having characters do goofy and inappropriate things IC, and have the world react to those actions. For example, Fighter and Cleric are doing a keg stand at the formal ball. Ok, how does Elf Princess react to that? Does this mean that Wizard’s reputation takes a hit because her associates have committed this faux pas? Does this mean that they won’t get quests that they otherwise would have gotten, or that they have to jump through additional hoops to get gear in this realm because their name is mud?
Or to take it one step further, does the fact that Fighter and Cleric do this sort of thing mean that Wizard starts forbidding them to come to fancy balls so that they won’t screw things up?
Obviously this won’t be for every group, since it makes it really easy for one jerk to ruin things for everyone else, but it can be an interesting way to make different characters and personalities matter.
Oh sure. “Let there be consequences” is the go-to advice when you’ve got a murderhobo infestation.
Trigun, good taste…
I’m a stickler for seriousness, when GMing; it’s one of the reason I tend not to do Grimdark campaigns (I coulda left another two hundred cents on that, but would it /really/ have been interesting? I think not!), and I tend to pretty strict. When we’re gaming in a setting, don’t fiddle with your phone, play video games, or zone off. (DO feel free to leave whenever, I know life comes up; if you ARE zoning off and need sleep, I’m never cruel to absentee characters, lack of sleep’ll kill ya.)
But as a peace-offering, and something that’s been so popular that it’s spread to other members of my inner circle, is that after (or sometimes in the middle of longer sessions, when I was involved in those) every session I’ll allow fora short, thirty minute ‘omake’ section. The characters are still ‘in-character’, but free to be as 100% goofy as they want, and it’s considered a kind of ‘sub-canon.’ Obviously, the party didn’t really chug a bowl of ‘magical’ toothpaste and become toothpaste-immune, but when in-character and the exhausted rogue mumbles
“This is just like the night with the HECKING toothpaste – ”
“Don’t you bring that up, Jimmy-bob…”
And the players share serious, brooding looks over something so silly, and I don’t have to lift a finger, I feel like my job is done.
One last thing, as a side note, I appreciate both that Queen Princess Elf Wizard and Elf Princess (non-queen, non-wizard) meeting up again is a thing, I appreciate any reference to that mysterious vigilante who fights evil by moonlight, Horsepower, and I appreciate every background detail Laurel adds, they’re all great.
Was I right earlier in that Aristocrat has a golden/wooden artificial ear? That’s a nice allusion without saying anything, and is also just kinda cool.
That is an interesting analog for the e-gaming concept of the “OOC Channel.” Kind of makes me wonder if the one gave rise to the other in your group.
Got it in one. 🙂