Overperforming
We haven’t talked about Bard’s bardery since his introduction way back when. From where I’m sitting, the same problem still applies: Your badass character concept never survives contact with a sniggering table full of gamers.
Let’s face it, guys: The trope of battle-performance is inherently goofy. So much so that it sees play all across my line of work. From Elan of The Order of the Stick to Flynn the Fine of Gamers fame to this poor bastard, the imagery of a dude strumming his guitar during life-or-death combat is patently ludicrous. How you overcome that little difficulty is down to personal taste.
“I only sing ,” says the practical bard. “No instrument required. Plus it’s got literary precedent!”
“I use an instrument, sure,” says the DIY bard. “But it’s one of those harmonicas with a holder. That way I’m still hands-free!”
“I do a battle dance,” says the dervish bard.
“I crack witty one-liners,” says the orator.
“You know that dude from Critical Role?” says the critter. “I just do that. Because I took improv classes and I’m gonna use them. And if it’s goofy and ridiculous, then you’re welcome.”
If all else fails, the serious-face gamer can always fall back on, “I’m not literally performing. It’s just a way I hold myself that draws on my bardic training. It’s a commanding presence, not a literal song and dance routine. Ya bunch of Philistines.”
This of course draws us to our question of the day! When it’s your turn to roll up a song-and-dance man, what do you imagine that they’re doing in battle? Are they literally strumming a guitar in a sword fight? Or do they just apply their two years ballroom, two years tap to swordplay in a skill synergy sort of way? Sound off with your own takes on bardic battle music down in the comments!
EARN BONUS LOOT! Check out the The Handbook of Heroes Patreon. We’ve got a sketch feed full of Laurel’s original concept art. We’ve got early access to comics. There’s physical schwag, personalized art, and a monthly vote to see which class gets featured in the comic next. And perhaps my personal favorite, we’ve been hard at work bringing a bimonthly NSFW Handbook of Erotic Fantasy comic to the world! So come one come all. Hurry while supplies of hot elf chicks lasts!
Aw, so we’ve returned from the Great Beyond? It was fun while it lasted. ^_^
It seems Bard here has taken a leaf from the book of Pinky Pie.
I might argue he’s embraced the concept of the distraction bard: an apparition so patently absurd that you can only laugh… and the bard can stab you while you do.
My own bard characters basically act like red mages, alternating sons of bardic inspiration with spells – and the occasional stabbing. A bard’s strength lies in versatility, so embrace your inner gish and do whatever is needed and whatever works. A bard makes a great jack of all trades and backup for pretty much everyone else in the party, and a great faceman besides. It may not be masterpiece theater, but any performance you can walk away from with a profit – and your life and limbs – is a good one!
I make no promises.
I like the Great Beyond-based adventures, so I’m not complaining either way. ^_^
My current bard plays a hurdy gurdy with one hand on the keys and her tail on the crank when she needs the other hand for something like a sword or gesturing grandly over an illusion while she narrates a story.
Well now I just want a magical boombox.
A solid option for a bard character would be a War Horn. A simple instrument that has historical precedent as a way to rally allies and demoralize enemies in battle. You could play a pretty serious and grounded character that still makes use of Bardic abilities that way
Serious and grounded relative to D&D standards, at least.
Lots of other instruments have historical precedent in the same way, from voice to bagpipes. They’re just not as common in pop culture. (Which I guess is fair; singing in battle seems a lot more natural to the original audience of Beowulf than most modern fantasy readers.)
It’s been a while. What bits of Beowulf are we looking at? What situations did our heroic Geats find themselves in that called for song?
Boromir blowing the Horn of Gondor is the only instance I can think of in pop culture where a small group of dudes used an instrument mid-battle. That was for warning purposes: ‘the enemy is upon us’ type stuff while the Fellowship was scattered. You can watch the Peter Jackson depiction of that moment here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc6aciIhO6c&t=27s
Boromir has just killed an Uruk, buying himself a few moments to blow his horn in a “here we are, rally to me” context. That’s a very different context than a stand-up fight at close quarters with a small handful of allies (read: the deafault D&D scenario). In that situation, I’m not pausing mid-stab to demoralize the enemy with my tuba of charm.
In other words, the historical military uses of music — spooking horses; demoralizing armies; communicating with fighting formations — don’t seem to apply to a dungeon-delving scenario.
I’d love to see counter-examples though, because staging bardic performance in a non-goofy way is friggin’ hard to do.
I can think of other examples. There were the assassins in Kung-Fu Hustle who used music to conjure magical attacks, there were the scenes in Adventure Time where Marceline gets out her guitar-axe, Matt’s music based attacks (“Power Metal” and “Death Metal”) and Crimson Razorback “sword” in Epic Battle Fantasy, and the suicide symphony from Read Or Die
Marginal cases include the rap improv scene from Scary Movie 1 (although this is sung and isn’t fantasy), Zalgo (“I will open one of my six mouths and sing the song that ends the earth”), the flamethrower guitar from Fury Road (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UtjGTrVwRr4&t=36s I don’t think we ever see it used in actual combat though) (and I’m sure I’ve seen similar guitars that fired rockets and/or lasers in other media, although I can’t place precisely where), Vogon poetry and the band Disaster Area from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, fight scenes in musicals, The Master’s persistent hallucinations of war drums in Dr.Who, the various fight scenes in the Spongebob episode “Band Geeks, instruments of torture, the mouse organ from Monty Python, cartoons where someone drops a piano on someone else’s head, that time Keith Moon overpacked the pyrotechnics hidden in his drum, the gun in Neon Abyss that shoots music notes, Master Shake’s song that makes the robot kill itself in the Aqua Teen Hunger Force movie, I think someone gets strangled with a guitar string at some point in Metalocalypse, and of course there’s El Kabong from the Quick-Draw McGraw Show
Also, the embellishment of Carl’s story of battling demons from the ATHF episode “Shirt Herpes” (“…and I still continued the bass solo…”)
I think you may have missed a critical part of my last comment:
This stuff works great in terms of cartoon physics. That’s where you get Adventure Time, anime shenanigans, and Disney’s Robin Hood:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/af/2b/8a/af2b8aa5c0ce1d4e455a1789d0e4751b.gif
When I say “non-goofy,” I’m trying to imagine how you would stage this stuff in live action film such that it’s reasonably believable. I can see Boromir blowing a few desperate blasts on his horn. Sponge Bob doesn’t quite fit the bill. Even with Fury Road, a flame thrower guitar is more of a “shock and awe” thing for a flexing warlord than a weapon you’d bring into a dungeon.
In that sense, the Kung Fu Hustle fight that I linked further down in the comments is probably the closest to what I’m looking for. You are obviously a student of popular culture. Can you think of any more stuff like that?
I did miss that “non goofy” part. That knocks out 90% of my examples
Despite the goofiness the scene, the relevant portion of the rap improv scene in Scary Movie actually fits pretty well. He just keeps improvising raps while he’s killing everyone https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ei3WdvTkkCQ&t=001m17s
I just thought of one, how about the “Spellsinger” novels? They can be goofy at times but they’re not all goofy all the time.
Also the scene in Metalocalypse where they conjure a troll with music. It’s goofy the way they do it but it could easily fit into a more serious live action piece
I just remembered a few that come from religion rather than pop culture.
In the biblical battle of Jericho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jericho) they blow a trumpet to knock down the city’s walls, and then in the Book of Revelation they use trumpets to summon all kinds of crazy disasters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_trumpets)
I watched that KFH clip and it reminded me a lot of the battles in Scott Pilgrim vs the World – both the band vs band battles where they used music to conjur up giant elementals, as well as the 1 v 1 battle Scott had vs Todd where they’re both playing bass against each other.
While I don’t think they get past the “not goofy” requirement, I could actually kinda visualise this as a way that bards can affect the battle in terms of damage and magic use.
Hmm, I think video games are your best bet for serious examples. That medium has long played around with dynamic soundtracks that adapt to match what you and the enemies are doing at any given moment (everything from Doom 2016 to The King’s Bird), and it’s only a short step from there to make the music diegetic.
That said, the only examples I can think of are Devil May Cry, where one of Dante’s weapons is an electric guitar that shoots electric bats at his enemies as he plays it (fun fact: one of Dante’s powers is an intuitive grasp of how to use anything he’s holding, even in ways never intended by the creator) and a boss from Nier Automata, a robot that has adapted its operatic dance moves and special effects into lethal attacks still in perfect sync with the music.
I am reminded of the hunting horn class of weapons from Monster Hunter World, which allow you to bludgeon dragons to death with a bagpipe while playing it to buff allies.
Actually, just found another one, courtesy of RWBY. Two bards vs mage & barbarian:
https://youtu.be/bLu3_LKG_A8
Already posted this towards the bottom of the page, but it’s relevant to this thread, too. (Sorry if that’s a faux pas).
Instrument? Not Welsh are you then?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSEU5zHgcTc
It depends a bit on the specific bard character, but in general the ones I play tend to play actual music in the tradition of actual field musicians playing music for morale purposes during actual battles for literal millennia before the fundamental changes to our military systems that happened around WW1 moved them off the battlefield.
This is more likely to be a drum, a flute or a horn than a string instrument.
Songs with their both literary and historical precedent (Tolkien didn’t invent that, it was a real thing that he put in his story because he was like that).
If it was good enough for people on a real battlefield putting their actual lives on the line, it’s certainly good enough for my character’s too.
I also like battle-dancing dervishes even though those are more the realm of the fantastical.
I hit post a bit too soon. This approach doesn’t strike me as silly at all but perfectly appropriate to a serious and grounded game.
In many ways I think that it seeming “silly” to some modern day folks because we lack the grounding in the past traditions that the idea draws on and just project our current societal circumstances backwards with no care for conditions.
Similar to that thing you sometimes see where people think that the reason lords and kings lead their men from the front instead of staying far away like a modern general was because they were all stupid, rather than because conditions were different.
Actual battles like four dudes vs. five goblins in a cramped cave? I think that context is slightly different than a clash of armies. How do you imagine the drum and fife being used in a dungeon?
So, this reply is a bit delayed (long week), but hopefully not too much.
To my knowledge there hasn’t really been any actual battles involving four dudes vs. five goblins in a cramped cage (or 4 vs. 5 dudes it’s not just because of the nonexistence of goblins).
So obviously there wasn’t any that involved field musicians either, or for that matter any involving spears or bows.
I think the closest is probably those tunnel and counter tunnel fights at medieval sieges, but those were always in the context of larger forces (four dudes can’t lay siege to a castle).
For me it isn’t really a problem to transpose the field musician into the dungeon. They just stand there in the back and inspire and encourage their allies while discouraging their enemies.
From time to time (when the bard casts spells) various glowing notes and runes and so on is brought forth from the music as well.
Last bard I played was just refluffing the glamour bard as a military sergeant, shouting tactical orders that would have the squad reposition (mantle of inspiration). Their “performance” was more likely to be stolen from Full Metal Jacket than a musical number.
This “drill sergeant bard” business always seemed like a fair solution to me. You get similar shtick with this guy:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo-monk-archetypes/sensei/
That skewered Goblin looks incredibly unimpressed about his death / grievous injury.
He can’t believe Bard would wear that to a battle.
The important thing to bear in mind is that bardic performances are all either supernatural or spell-like abilities. Yes, the idea of someone aggressively strumming their lute at the enemy like they’re on the Road to El Dorado seems absurd, but that where the literal magic comes in. That performance may come from one guy, but it doesn’t have to sound like it. Take the morale boost of a fife-and-drum corps and multiply it by John Williams.
And yes, I am proposing that opposing bards basically have grand, sweeping musical duels in the background of the fight. Especially if both are using banjos.
Kung Fu Hustle also had a very good music fight
Great example! You’re talking about this scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeyF8n6C0sw&t=70s
I could get behind the idea of a bard producing that sort of effect with an instrument, even in the context of a dungeon. It relies on high-fantasy imagery rather than historical precedent, but it’s a way to make the “silly” idea (Fan of Most Everything’s ‘strumming their lute at the enemy’) fit a believable magical world.
My current character in the one game where I am a player, is a bard who likes to provide backup music. I like to flavor casting spells or handing out bardic inspiration as changing the tempo or playing a riff.
In another game I DM, there is a bard and a Cleric dedicated to the God of Metal. Wielding an electric guitar and a (chainsaw) bass respectively. So when they are not hitting people with their instruments, it sometimes turns into them rocking out in the middle of the battle field.
Kind of makes me wonder if they’ll embrace this biz in the D&D movie.
All I can say is that percussion and concussion go well together with the right choice of instrument.
The guitar isn’t a percussion instrument!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/Hb_quickdraw_photo_01_md.jpg/200px-Hb_quickdraw_photo_01_md.jpg
Tell that to any number of rock stars who keep smashing things with them…
My dwarf bard Balrin took notes from Tolkien and played the harp, to the extent that he played at all. I had to start throwing things at people when they kept asking me to play the bagpipes for them, which i was proficient in but did not have on my person.
One D&D novel from the early days of 2e had bardic spellcasting represent the verbal components by humming scales and quick snippets of songs, which i like the idea of.
If you can find a passage to quote, I’d love to see it! This seems like a great way to keep the “there’s power in music” trope but keep the accordions off the battlefield.
Are you telling me you don’t appreciate the musical stylings of Chaotic Neutral Al?
It was, IIRC, the book “Song of the Sauriels”, book 3 in the Finder’s Stone Trilogy, set in the Forgotten Realms. Dont have the exact quote on hand, but the bard Finder Wyvernspur uses scales to trigger different spells from the eponymous Finder’s Stone.
It’s got some mechanical support in 3.5, with the feat Melodic Spellcasting. It helps that the feat is fantastic, letting you cast spells and activate magic items without stopping your bardic music by incorporating the verbal components into the lyrics.
https://dndtools.net/feats/complete-mage–58/melodic-casting–1918/
I like to imagine my bards playing something patiently impractical like a grand harp while also sword fighting, it amuses me and who cares how it works?
when I’m at a more serious table I generally default to singing though, especially since some trained singers can do some truly beautiful things with their voices
As a GM, I have to be able to describe the scene. The amusing mental image is great if you’re going for a cartoony tone, but it can be an immersion-breaker in more serious moments.
The thing about singing in battle goes a lot farther back than Tolkien. In the literary tradition, that goes at least back to Beowulf—in other words, to the dawn of English literature—because singing in/immediately before battle was something Anglo-Saxon warriors actually did! And I don’t think they were alone.
While we’re discussing historical examples of soldiers providing their own boss music, there are a surprising number of Scottish soldiers who played bagpipes during battle in the World Wars. So that’s another option for your bard.
Have you got any source material for the Anglo-Saxon history? I’d be curious to read up on the practice. I can picture a “marching song” easily enough, but mid-combat is tough to wrap my head around.
As cool as the dervish idea sounds, my combat-bard-ing generally looks more like this:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DxP8G-LwWNn0&ved=2ahUKEwjpzsS2tZLyAhWJR0EAHVz4AY4Q3ywwAnoECAoQAg&usg=AOvVaw1yzE1pqfHJsl38U2hl9vqb
Standing in the middle of the battlefield, blaring music on some very anachronistic instrument and causing my enemies to explode to the beat
If I’m being a bit more serious, I’ll go for some weird cross between a small and a drill-sergeant. “Your grandmother Aedibel, Slayer of Chaugithragks the Hellwyrm, would never have quaked thus! HONOUR YOUR ANCESTORS,, YOU SUPPURATING LUMP OF DUNGEON SLIME!”
I always meant to play Brütal Legend, but I never quite got around to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%BCtal_Legend
I still think it would be good fun to use it as the basis for a bad-centric campaign.
I personally like to play bards who are ex-soldiers and who are singing war songs. Using war chants and songs to demoralize the enemy and inspire allies has a historical precedent. Heck, it’s still used to this day (google “New Zealand Rugby Haka”).
Plus singing lets me keep a hand free for stabbing bad guys with my sword. 😉
As for the silliness of it, how much sillier is it than a wizard flinging bat guano shouting “Fireball?” Or a priest holding up a symbol and shouting at some mindless zombies? Bards, clerics, and wizards all do things in combat that would look completely silly if it wasn’t for the magical effects they conjured.
Did you watch this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2dCzFZ9qcM
Lol! Classic.
The bard did look pretty silly in this one. Though I suspect they all looked pretty silly to the cyclops who just stomped through them all.
If Jack Churchill could charge into battle in WW2 with bagpipes, a sword, and a long bow, on top of his other gear, I don’t see why I can’t shred on a lute while stabbing goblins.
I think that this military business makes sense in a military-style campaign. I could well picture a Black Company PC signing up as the company bugler, for example. I bet you could get some mileage out signaling for backup from nearby squads or helping to coordinate maneuvers in the background of running battle type session.
But in the typical dungeoneering sense of 4-5 dudes creeping about ruins and monster-infested keeps, I just don’t know how often Jack Churchill the level 4 fighter bard would find a use for the pipes.
On a separate note, I quite liked this bit linking to fellow piper WWII Bill Millin’s wiki page:
Well if I’m not mistaken, bards get their magic ability by using music to manipulate the weave. Also, a lot of different instruments have mutes, so maybe thats how they can still be stealthy. Conversely, I don’t think it says anywhere that the music has to be in the auditory range of frequencies.
Dog whistle bard! lol
Werewolves hate him!
I still have an Orc War Drummer named Drumma* I want to build. It’s just difficult beat to set when you need multiple decent stats and skills in a point buy system.
She didn’t speak humie languages well at first so when asked who she is she points tot he wardrums and says “Drumma”. Her actual name is some long winded thing in Or’zet, but she’s fine with going by Drumma now.
Beats hell out of my naming conventions:
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/the-handbook-of-heroes-09
our groups current Bard does not fight in combat, he just plays his lute and casts a few spells.
If I wanted a bard I‘d talk to my DM and request a Payet Best style of battle guitar.
with my current DM I had approval for a flute/blowpipe when a Rogue(fake bard) was in design.
What is a “Payet Best” guitar?
My two favorite bardic builds are:
a) a bard who presents as a fighter–full kit, tabard, medium armor, longsword & shield–and uses a signal horn to give morale bonuses to everyone within a quarter-mile and beyond (ear-shot), while Feat-maxing Precocious Apprentice with Touch of Healing to give him infinite touch-healing
b) an insult-comic with Performance (comedy) who fells foes by casting vicious mockery and inspires his teammates by belittling the opposition with withering one-liners.
I suspect option b of having an outrageous French accent.
options:
#1: Something like a hunting horn ala Monster Hunter
#2: Axe guitar like in Brütal Legend
Music: played
Style: absolute
Well then. That’s certainly a thing that exists. O_O
it gets better, some of them looks like something horrible i cannot describe in text properly and who’s sound is like a drunken, demonically-possessed didgeridoo. What more can you ask for
When I played a Bard he never once used a weapon, he was a pure-caster, so the imagery was simply a musician on the battlefield: Goofy, but only in the way the concept of Bards in general is. Starting in 4E and continuing into 5E the Bard concept became less of a “Jack of all trades” (In spite of the eponymous feature.) and more of a skillmonkey/support caster. I find they serve in this role quite well. Some subs (Valor/Swords) make them go back to their AD&D identity, but I think it’s best that said identity was excised from the core Bard. For 5E’s “All around-er class” you’ve got the Cleric with a solid mix of armor, casting, weaponry, support magic, and blasting.
When I played a Bard I decided to lean into it and play Frank Mars: Halfling Rock-Star. All my spells were snippets of classic rock songs which I sang at the table. Thankfully I can sing quite well and the table was game. That said he was a Rock Star, and he did lean into all the stereotypes that entailed. (Hence I dumped Wisdom) He was the original “Horny Bard” and I blame myself for all of the terrible memes that followed.
The people of Greyhawk thank you for your service.
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/speed-dating
It was funny a few years ago, but now the joke has been ruined by overexposure. Did you know there’s nothing in the Bard as written that relates to boning-down beyond being charismatic? Any class can be horny, not just Bards, and there are tons of 5E classes that are better suited for it thematically.
Paladins: Charming, muscular, immune to disease, able to cure the diseases of others. (Send your Paladin to the discount brothel, screen everyone and take payment in services rendered) Plus the Oath of Ancients explicitly requires you to be a fun person.
Sorcerer: Charismatic, plus there’s already a family history of xenophilia. Plus if you want to maintain the potency of your bloodline your options are a relative or something supernatural, so go seduce that Dragon so you don’t get paired with your sibling.
Warlocks: Charismatic, has friendly contact with supernatural entities.
Any class can be horny if you want it to be, it doesn’t have to be the people who sing for a living.
But… But I only wrote that comic last year!
Bard and its cousin Skald I feel are fairly flexible. For the former, I’m thinking of an illusionist with an Aether Elemental familiar acting as a stage hand, effectively using illusions and summons to create an entire circus act on their lonesome. Sadly School Familiar isn’t available to Bard, because you can get a familiar who can maintain one illusion for you and has Ghost Sound as an at-will ability (built-in laugh track!).
One Skald idea I want to play (kinda cheating here, sorry) someday is a flavor-shifted not-Disney Princess. Dhampir Skald with lots of rat pets in her two familiar’s satchels and the Spirit Totem line of Rage Powers, former noble who has found comfort in attending to the animal kingdom’s more maligned members. She plays Pipes of the Sewers to lure rats in and then uses a Dhampir race trait to Diplomacy them into being her subjects. Buff-focused and lets the passive attacks chip away at foes to contribute on the damage front. She hopes one day to reclaim her inheritance and title stolen and stripped from her by her evil step mother.
On the topic of Bardic Performance, I agree, it’s always a bit inherently silly no matter how you slice it, but to be fair, that applies to a lot of fantasy. Bards just get a little more obvious about it.
I feel you have to accept that you’re always going to have to be over the top in some manner as a Bard, whether you play a stern perfectionist conductor or straight up a Capoeira practitioner (…hm, Monk with a Cha-focused archetype and Bard gestalt?). Charisma is the key attribute for a reason- you are capital E Extra to the point that it literally manifests as magic and empowers you and your allies.
You can be straight-laced as you embrace that, however- chanting and words of power are already a magic thing, just add a rhythmic element. Or you can do a thing I always wanted to do and flavor Perform (Oratory) as you going full Drill Sergent/field commander and calling out warnings/support to your allies with enough force that it strengthens their resolve. If going with Oratory, you can even pull flavor from the rightfully maligned and pitied Truenamer from 3.5e; speaking the language of the universe itself to impose your will on it.
At the end of the day, Bards appear silly, and some can embrace it (or even aim for it- Comedy is an option after all!), but one universal thing is that they are serious about pursuing their craft, to the point it’s become a source of power that lets them pluck the heartstrings of friend and foe alike. Play with that as you will, whether for comedy or drama, and you can’t go wrong.
Wish I could find the character art, but Laurel did a Shadowrun mage named “princess vermin” once upon a time. Wore a prom dress and a paper crown, lived in a dumpster, turned enemies into rats. Was good times.
Makes sense to me. Feels like the 4e warlord conceptually, so you know there’s plenty of design space in there.
I don’t generally give it a lot of thought; RPG mechanics being what they are, but as a personal preference… I imagine my table is a bit more like Handbook World than not based on your panels.
The world itself is a fairly serious place. Dark fantasy horror is pretty much my go to for fantasy settings. But players are absurd, and I embrace that. The more ridiculous the better. So not only is the Bard playing his lute for his Perform checks, it is a specialized Combat Lute, an AXE shall we say, which he strikes Chords of Power that do additional sonic damage.
No one typically plays Bards in my group though, so I tend to have fun with them. I have a group of bards… a band, shall we say, that follows the party around and plays during some big encounters. They give the party the Bardic Performance buff, are intel brokers, and made of various flavors of bard and swashbuckler.
Saw this one on the reddits the other day. Thought it was a lot of fun:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/118501033935441049/
Never found a chance to play him, but I had a concept for an Exalted character like that… a glam-rock Zenith, wielder of the legendary guitar known as the Apocalypse in Gold. He’d have primarily made sonic attacks with some reskinned archery charms, but hitting things with the “axe” is always a good rock-n-roll thing to do.
Runcible Grimalkin, my 5e Custom Lineage Maine Coon Cat Bard uses the bell he wears along with feline antics and gyrations to cast his spells. He doesn’t wield any weapons or armor because he’s a cat. When he casts Chaos Bolt he literally horks it like a hairball at the enemy. Mostly he acts more or less like a normal big, fluffy cat and uses his persuasive (and telepathic) abilities to assist with ally social interactions and to beg for treats
I gather that Master Grimalkin has embraced the camp. Good on him.
I have a hard time seeing a bard doing anything combative while also doing bard stuff unless it is dance based or vocal. Anything else just takes up too much of the bard’s mental focus and manual dexterity IMO.
It occurs to me that this might be a “band kids” thing. Like, if you’ve played an instrument IRL, it becomes a lot harder to imagine simultaneously sword fighting.
So out of curiosity: Do you play an instrument?
Yep! I’m horrendously out of practice, but I used to play trombone and piano, both of which are not exactly the best choices for an adventuring bard unless they stick a knife onto the end of the trombone’s slide.
It doesn’t help that most bardic music effects have no obvious, well, effect on the world. Sure, there’s subtle stuff going on in the background, like party buffs or even mind control, but as far as anyone can actually see it’s just a dude singing away. So if you want to look and feel like a badass, you need to start borrowing from mages (who are after all just waving their hands around, speaking nonsense words, and occasionally flinging bat poop out of a pouch, yet don’t seem to have this problem).
That could take the form of some upgraded aesthetics. Inspire Courage now produces a 30ft radius runic circle of musical lines and riffs, centered on you, and allies that step on it gain a visible glow as they’re charged with power and the music swells in their ears. Suggestion creates an echoing chorus around the victim, drowning out their own thoughts until they have no choice but to follow the command. That sort of thing.
Or it could take the form of getting some music effects that are more inherently impressive. I like 3.5’s Stormsinger prestige class for this. There’s nothing silly about singing when a storm visibly builds above you, and hitting the high note calls down a literal bolt of lightning to smite your enemies! (Well, nothing inherently silly; you could always turn it into a joke if you wanted, but now “slightly silly” isn’t the default state).
Side Note: ironically, Stormsinger is a much better prestige class for casters that aren’t primarily bards. It can progress any arcane casting class, so as long as you have the one level of bard necessary to qualify, you can keep progressing your main class while picking up powerful bardic music effects, whereas a pure bard would be trading their native music effects to get the same.
That is indeed a cool image. However, it’s equally possible to play a trumpet while (in 3.X terms) fencing with your off-hand. That’s a mental image problem wizards don’t have to deal with.
Allow me to present: two bards vs mage + barbarian!
https://youtu.be/bLu3_LKG_A8
Technically no sword, but I think he could rock one.
Now, I do see where you’re coming from. That same confrontation with more mundane bards would look absurd… but bardic music is magic. Leaning into that lets you embrace the powerful image of bending reality to your will, instead of the silly image of bringing a song to a sword fight.
Let your enemies be your instruments, let their screams be your music, let your weapons play with skill, let your battle be your art, let their agony be your immortal work 😀
Damn, today i am full dark eldar 😛
May I suggest a new hairstyle?
https://hairstyleonpoint.com/top-five-emo-hairstyles-guys/
No thanks. I have keep it way to long for the plague as to do any of that styles. Suit yourself if you like 😛
Bards are one of the classes I’ve still never gotten around to playing, but I’ve got a fun concept for a Simic Hybrid (or other aquatic race) bard who unnerves enemies into screwing up their attacks with her deep-sea reverb noises. Though on the musical side she will be proficient with the pipe organ, which she is going to have built into her ship, Davy Jones style.
Unnerving, or annoying?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJGeeryk0Eo
I came up with the character concept after finding out about the ‘Bloop’, so I was thinking more on the unnerving side, but maybe a bit of both?
This page was basically the whole inspiration for the character. Plus some really neat art of a squid person on Twitter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unexplained_sounds#NOAA_(unidentified)
I already miss the planes series. May we have far, far more planar adventures?
Pweath?
Thankee!
Beware of what you conjure into being. O_O
One of my goals is to have a boss encounter be a bard so that in-character someone will ask, “Why do I hear boss music?”
Does the boss music just follow him around?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPM1o9QKw1Q
I have 2 bards full bards, one character that dips bard, and a paladin that gets Inspire Courage with an archetype. The first bard actually loses performance so she doesn’t have to worry about that. The second one is an archer and has extra strings on his bow that can act like a harp whenever he shoots. The third was more of a flavor dip and I haven’t had a chance to play her yet. I think she’s going to sing. And finally, the Paladin won’t be playing music but giving inspiring speeches instead.
The bow must be a bitch to tune. 😛
Nah, no tuning. He’s an orc with a nice high Intimidate mod. If anyone complains that the notes are bad, he just gives them a cheerful smile and says “Would you rather have good music, or would you rather live? Cause I have a nice one picked out for your funeral.”
Sure from our perspective it seems silly. Then again from our perspective pointing a stick at people and apparently also doing complicated hand motions and spouting memorized somehow non-language words at people is also silly.
I feel like how silly the action is has a lot to do with the result. Sure Vicious Mockery just gives someone a headache and doesn’t likely have a lot of flash to it. On the other hand, it makes plenty of sense when to strike a chord and explode constructs with the sound blast of a Shatter.
Reductio ad absurdum is a language game. Just ask your local strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords. I’m not talking about language though. I’m talking about the imagery.
It’s easy to imagine Dr. Strange style magic or Harry Potter magic. We’ve seen that mess on screen, and so we know how to stage that business in our theaters of the mind. Making the blocking for “battle performance” work is a lot harder though.
My recommendation is to watch Kung Fu Hustle. Got a couple of warrior musicians in there who feel anything but silly. (Well, still a little silly, but that’s the movie in general.) They’ve been my go-to for ‘dangerous music’ ever since.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeyF8n6C0sw
I’m unsure of how it works mechanically – Bards do know magic, so I assume that they’re either supernaturally dextrous or literally are beating people over the head with a masterwork guitar of some kind.
For the people actually down in a dark, cold, wet, depressing dungeon facing death on a daily basis, however, I can’t imagine even a gruff Barbarian or a snobby Wizard not wanting someone willing to play them music and bring them mirth, to fill the overwhelming depressive silence of a massive underground complex. Morale is real, and having something to fill your ears beyond the chanting of spells aimed at your head and the spark of a sword clashing against the edge of your shield inches from your neck seriously changes the mental dynamic of every fight, much less resting. A bard can make you feel like you’re back in civilization when you’re planes away from home – so I’m alright with them having silly instruments out in combat. If they didn’t, the world would be a lot less fun.
Well there’s a thought. Of course, you then have to justify why they’re supernaturally dexterous in all things musical but not necessarily in other Dex-based shenanigans. Maybe it’s the fabulous arcane training known as “band practice?”
I’ve had two bards. The first was a Bardbarian. I played it off as a dance bard situation, where she had a pair of pan pipes round her neck she could just snatch and bring up to her mouth. Since her weapon of choice was a glaive, it wasn’t too far fetched for her to go doot. Concept, I ran with the idea of her being a sort of battlesinger, but without any of the finery the actual class provided. Not being a full elf, she couldn’t do all the nice stuff that they could do, and took inspiration from more orcish routes instead; sharp movement, war cries.
Second guy was a bit tougher. Straight bard, but he used a violin as his focus. Truth be told… I never stopped to consider that he had a rapier in one hand and a violin in the other. Well. Let’s just imagine that the pointy stick has a bow on the other side, shall we. : P
Just can’t miss while spooling up that violin!
Man Aesthetically I love the Bard, sucks my friend hate the concept of the class so much he made a rule in his games where you actually had to sing to do anything. Performing in combat seems fun but I am a terrible singer, so i never got to play one.
Since i now mostly play online i probably should make a Bard, since i really do love the idea of a performer or artist who weaponizes their craft. I’m also a fan of Magical Mimes and guys who slosh paint around like its noones business.
Personally, I think it depends on the bard.
One may Acually play there instrument in combat, and others may not.
I like the idea of a Violinist Bard, that uses their Rapier as the Tool for playing the Violin. So they can still be “part of the fight” …. Wether its Possible in real life or not.
Tolkien has several examples of musical magic, I think all of which are singing or chanting. Tom Bombadil is probably the best known (and might not help you with keeping a straight face while the bard is doing their thing), but the Silmarillion has several more examples. Here’s part of one:
[Sauron] chanted a song of wizardry,
Of piercing, opening, of treachery,
Revealing, uncovering, betraying.
Then sudden Felagund there swaying
Sang in answer a song of staying,
Resisting, battling against power,
Of secrets kept, strength like a tower,
And trust unbroken, freedom, escape;
Of changing and of shifting shape
Of snares eluded, broken traps,
The prison opening, the chain that snaps.
(version set to music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eWZCYuYR6s)
Overall, I think the Tolkien examples all support the idea that the most “believable” version is one where the Bard sings magic spells rather than playing an instrument.
However, I think you can also make the instrument version work. Music can also be a language, and if the Wizard can make stuff explode by saying the right words I don’t think it’s inherently more ridiculous for the Bard to heal their allies by playing the right music.
In terms of what they’re DOING to do that, I suggest watching some videos on Leitmotifs and the like (here’s an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itMJ-fUPXqE).
The Bard would have Leitmotifs that represent the party and its members. So, if the Bard wants to heal the Paladin and get them back in the fight, they could transform the Paladin’s Leitmotif in a hopeful way, or if they want the Barbarian to have a surge of strength they could play the Barbarian’s Leitmotif in a heroic way, and so on.
I think that version of the Bard would need to be a caster rather than a melee fighter in order to avoid ridiculous mental images along the lines of the one in the comic, though.
I like the PF2e approach of making bards 10th level occult spell casters. Ther’re casting spells with music. Like so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSTnDh5ZwTc
Well, clearly you need a Bard with a Mace and a Steel shield in some sort of armor with heavy boots. Have him slam his mace into his shield and stomp in tune to “We Will Rock You”. The BANG-BANG-CLANG is the music, he’s just singing under his breath to make sure his fear doesn’t get the better of him.
there’s an all-bard (multiclassed) actual play podcast (played by an actual band) called Bombarded where they kind of tackle this—one has a battleaxe that’s also a guitar, and another has magical mallets that make the right sounds when the bard does air-drums (and also, if I recall correctly, double as weapons and hang from straps off her wrists). The miniature organ/keyboard of the third bard isn’t really explained away as far as I remember, though
While song, oratory and dance are probably the most practical performances, I like the idea of going the other way: from performance to combat style. Like the war drummer Skald Archetype that gains proficiency with Greatclubs! But even that approach will not save a piano-playing Bard.
I just found a magic item called the Tuned Bowstring. It literally allows an archer bard to maintain a performance without using up a use of it as long as the archer is firing an arrow every round. It’s PERFECT for my character.
Well that’s amazing.
One of my favorite things about a sprawling system like Pathfinder is this kind of happy “oh wait, that does exist” accident. 🙂
And it’ll mean Lingering Performance won’t be needed anymore so I can retrain it for something else. I might go with Trick Shooter and get bonuses to ranged maneuvers.
Dude, being a competent shooter is BIG GAME for a bard. You can’t cast every round of every combat, so supplementing with a little damage output makes the whole adventuring day flow that much better.
Thanks to EITR rules and gestalting with the Fighter class, he’s got a lot of room for feats.
Weapon Finesse, Lingering Performance, Toughness, Arcane Strike, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, MYTHIC Rapid Shot, Improved Initiative, Empty Quiver Style, Ranged Trip, Ranged Disarm, Weapon Focus, and MYTHIC Weapon Focus.
It’s a mythic game? Heh. I almost doesn’t matter what you build at that point. You’re gonna wind up doing stupid busted things no matter what. Pity the poor GM trying to balance encounters.
I’m thinking of grabbing Mythic Weapon Finesse at the next Mythic Tier so he’ll be able to do dex to damage with the bow in melee using Empty Quiver. Just wish there was a way to do dex to damage with a bow. There’s one feat for Int, I believe, but his is a flat 10. (He’s charming, not really smart.)