New Recruit
Looks like Antipaladin is as good as his word. After many thankless sessions serving as point man for the Evil Party, our not-so-bad boy in black has found some self-respect. Leaving his many abusive bosses behind, he’s struck out for the open market. Only time will tell whether he and Patches integrate seamlessly into Team Bounty Hunter. But by the look of things, at least today’s job interview is more convivial than his last one.
We talked about party composition and conflicting playstyles not so long ago, so let’s not retread too much ground. Instead, I’d like to take Antipaladin’s lateral career move as an opportunity to talk about conceptual flexibility. Bear with me as we go through a little Handbook-World dev history.
Back when we first invented Team Bounty Hunter, we had some specific design goals in mind. The original concept was to create a set of Wile E. Coyote type antagonists for the Heroes. They were meant to be a group of ruthless mercs who would stop at nothing to bring Fighter et al. to justice for their rampant murderhoboing. They also came into being at about the same time as our Patreon. Since we planned on making The Handbook of Erotic Fantasy a thing, that meant a trio of sexy lady adventurers would kill two birds with one stone. So Team Bounty Hunter was supposed to be Charlie’s Angels by way of Dog the Bounty Hunter.
Now compare the “purpose” of our bounty hunters to Antipaladin’s. When he first came on the scene, we were following up on Necromancer’s disastrous romance with Paladin. We’d posted a poll asking our fans to vote for the next character, and Antipaladin narrowly edged out Assassin for the job. The idea was to round out the party of bad guy characters that Witch was getting together, and a “reluctantly evil” guy seemed like a fun addition to the team. He only fell in with Demon Queen much later. In fact, we didn’t even realize that he was Demon’s Queen minion in her first “talk” with him. (Note the inappropriate use of “Sir” in that last one.)
The point of this insider history is best summarized by our pals from Powered by the Apocalypse. When you sit down to the table in an RPG, you play to find out what happens. That can be unfamiliar and a little scary. After all, whenever it’s time to create a PC, it’s only natural to bring a few expectations with you. You might set your dude up to avenge their father. To learn to harness their crazy ice powers. Maybe the culmination of the arc is finally finding a way back to Earth. And if you’re reading a novel or watching a film, you may feel disappointed if these expectations are dashed. That’s because the narrative arcs in these media get foreshadowed, built up, and ultimately paid off through linear stories. For better or worse, we tend to attach those same feelings to RPG characters, willing them to follow that pre-conceptualized path. That might work out, and it might very well yield a satisfying narrative. But on the other hand, the dice will have their say. Other players will bring their own oddball character choices to the table. The GM will decide to pull the game in an unexpected direction. In those moments, you can cling to what you thought your character was “supposed to be,” or you can adapt.
On the surface, Antipaladin may not have much in common with Team Bounty Hunter. I certainly didn’t see them teaming up back when these characters were first introduced. But I know I’m excited to see what happens when they get together. It may not be expected, but I certainly expect it to be interesting.
Question of the day then! Have you ever played a PC who changed dramatically from you initial vision? Was it an errant reincarnate spell? Did they actually fall to the temptations of Evil? Or maybe they just departed from your build and multiclassed in response to a story beat? Whatever it was, tell us all about your most unexpected character reversals down in the comments!
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Hey, this is great! ^_^ I look forward to seeing how the new Team Bounty-Hunter works out.
Also, now Patches the Unkicked has a mom as well as a dad and should be safer than ever. 😉
But did Antipaladin Rise? Has he lost his class abilities and will he need to take on levels in another class?
(Find out next week of Handbook of Heroes Z!)
Pretty much.
I doubt Anti-Paladin lost any abilities. I’ll bet that betrayal in right there on his Anti-Code…
Hey, now team bounty hunter is up to the four-member standard for team size in this comic
Has the fireguy found a new antipaladin power provider yet?
Of course, the Evil Party is down one, and even if the Anti-Party still accepts Fallen Paladin, they’re down one for combat purposes.
I’m sure Gunslinger would be perfectly happy to commit evil if he gets included…
But what ever will become of the Evil Party?
Maybe Assassin’s day has finally come…
I’m imagining Assassin as just being Gunslinger after crudely dying his outfit black.
evil party? come on it was hinted a while back.( https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/druid-court)
they obviously get Snowflake to join them.
although i think necromancer might leave, as the reason for her to join in the first place kinda lost it’s point.
To the tune of “Tradition” from Fiddler on the Roof: “Speculatiiiooooon! Speculation!”
I had this happen to a character, in a gestalt living world game. I was a winter witch/summoner whos eidolon was a kyton who was effectively her ‘handler’, as she worked for the kyton lord of ice to help bring about the inevitable ice age. Now, she had reasons for being this way, she’d lost a lot of friends and family on an expedition to the northern wastes to study planar things, and went kind of mad, seeking to freeze the world so no one would ever ‘lose’ anyone ever again. things happened, there was an outbreak of ‘fake’ kytons that were actually dreamscape constructs of a girl having nightmares, though this wasn’t known at the time. what my character knew was they weren’t real kyton, and were drawing some serious undue attention to her own superior’s plans. So she uses lesser planar ally (from the infernal contract special patron) to get some augur kyton scouts, sends them out with the arrangement of ‘we find the source, then you kill/end/whatever it” as the contract for payment. They find the source, give her directions, and she goes, to find it’s a young girl, tormented by nightmares, and also (as an NPC) the younger sibling of another PC (and it’s more complex than that, but not relevant). So…she realizes to keep going down this path she’s going to have to force someone else to suffer the pain that drove her crazy, and she effectively double-snaps, she and the other PC fight off and banish her familiar and eidolon, who are intent on finishing the job. She was able to get a new patron and eidolon relatively quickly enough (shifting to Lawful Neutral out of LE) in Pharasma and the Boneyard, though it took her near a year to finally find a way to get the fragment of her soul back to get rid of the ‘on death you’re going straight to the shadow plane’ bit from her otherwise dead infernal contract special patron. The kytons still have it in for her, former eidolon especially, but if they get her, they don’t get to keep her anymore. I wasn’t intending for ANY of this to happen, my long term plan for her involved getting the Apostle template, etc…but hey, you take what comes your way, as you said, it’s all about seeing what happens!
The “double snap” moment is interesting to me. It can be tempting as a player to sandbag these moments forever.
“If it comes to a crisis moment, then I ‘ll lose what makes my character interesting!”
But pushing through that and finding out what comes after… That takes a kind of courage.
QOTD: Yes, I had a Druid in a modified Skull and Shackles campaign. He was basically a ruthless pirate who had no social skills. Killing things and spellcasting he could do. (High Str/Wis, Decent Dex/Con, passable Int, 7 Cha).
One of the modifications was Devil Fruit. I got a +4 Cha secondary effect from that. So, yeah, the really socially-awkward guy became passable in small talk. The second is that he died twice in one week. In-game week, that is. Twice in about as many sessions. Really got him thinking about his afterlife. He converted from Besmara to Sarenrae and left about the time the rest of the party made a deal with a demon lord of service for power (that was also part of the modifications).
I imagine that the “demon lord of service” is responsible for automated phone trees.
Ah, minor ambiguity there. The deal was is service for power. The demon lord was a snake god of secrets. But your interpretation is good, too.
As for characters becoming something different…
I started out playing a kinda psycho executioner-type in a homebrewed WoD game, who gradually changed into a fairly noble druid-esque champion of nature.
A cynical, washed-up private eye I played in another WoD game found faith and turned himself around … because the party started transforming into demons. He was the only one never to use any of the powers that came with the transformation, iirc.
Having my Changeling brawler/witch turn into a Gnome by mesns of the reincarnation spell was fairly unimpressive in comparison. ^^; Although the character did, surprisongly, become more serious after the change…
Nice to see a redemption arc in WoD. I feel like that’s a primary tension in the game, but a lot of folks shy away from it since it can feel a bit unoriginal.
“The game wants me to deal with my humanity. But I *like* being a super power monster!”
I think it adds a richness to a game when someone actually grabs onto the theme though. Sort of similar to having a “straight man” in the group.
I think I puzzled the other players when I had my P.I. cling to his humanity like grim death and utterly refuse to use the powers.
There were some kind of control artefacts that allowed us to master the change and use the powers. My P.I.’s took the form of a ring that snapped shut around his finger and refused to be removed. He ran into a restaurant kitchen and lopped off the finger… but the effect still remained.
My P.I. dealt with having to tangle with demons, not by embracing dark powers, but by finding workarounds. Like having a priest consecrated the bullets for his handgun and just shooting the creepy monsters attacking the party. Worked a treat, too!
Only tangentially related to the question, but I love Reincarnate and use it as often as possible. I play a lot of humans, and in Pathfinder Reincarnate doesn’t get rid of mental racial abilities like the bonus feat and skilled, so it is a direct upgrade mechanically for me and it also serves to make my character more interesting. Once had a noble character turn into a lizardfolk, and I had a great time with it. Suddenly my character had a craving for raw eggs and meat, complained about how they miss their hair, and acted sluggish in cold weather. Was pretty dissapointed when my GM homebrewed a way to turn them back into a human.
The thing is, other people are usually married to their race. They would rather make a new character then have one that looks different from what they decided at the start, so sometimes I come at odds with people when they die and I start whipping out the Salve of Second Chance.
Well hey, you already know the dark side of reincarnate in my group:
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/white-haired-witch
I value “the unexpected,” and I encourage folks to embrace it. But for some players, it really is about staying true to a vision, and straying to far from that vision ruins the appeal of a character. It’s the same reason you see sitcom characters return to their starting premise week after week. There’s a certain comfort in it, and “new Darrin” can feel like an affront.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheOtherDarrin
Anyone ever played the Pathfinder adventure path “Ruins of Azlant”?
Well, I ran Ruins of Azlant, and one PC started out as a confident, cocky, swaggering Rogue. Then the first volume of Ruins of Azlant happened, and let’s just say that module’s writer seemed to be in love with high stealth scores and ambush setups.
By the end of those first few weeks, the Rogue’s confident front was replaced by a jittery, paranoid coward.
(I believe the player also said that he didn’t expect her to become such a frontline character, but over the course of the adventure she rose to be practically on par with the fighter with her sword.)
First encounter of the first session of my 9-year old megadungeon campaign. Our rogue ran straight into a bunch of cans tied to a string, alerting the nearby goblins. Low-level rogues are well-served by an abundance of caution. 😀
I wonder how hard Antipaladin will rock the established status quo of the other handbook.
What, are the ships already setting sail?
I predict an intense cartoonish sitcom rivalry between Magus and Patches. Especially if Patches proves to be smarter than they look (well, smarter than Magus, at least) or kept their otherworldly connection to Antipaladin’s ex-boss.
Now the you mention it, I suppose it is a little odd that Magus doesn’t mind Patches.
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/wild-child
Hmmm….
I hope, I hope, I hope this is because Patches is so much smaller than Ranger’s parents, and Magus feels effortlessly superior to him.
The alternative is a bit of horrifying speculation we had back when Magus was resurrected…
Oooh, Magus getting mind-whammied by Demon Queen? Or being controlled by Patches? Would explain why Antipaladin was so easily ‘found’.
” (Note the inappropriate use of “Sir” in that last one.) ” Funny story time. Back when women were first allowed to perform military service, it wasn’t too clear which, Mrs or miss, was the appropriate one so a lot of first female conscripts geting pips on sleeve and shoulder got caller Mr.
But to your question, no. My characters have bad habbit of dying before they can grow as characters, but that’s what I get for playing team tank 9/10 times, the 1/10 when I’m not tanking I end up being screwed in the rear by GM with mean streak. So I choose to be first in the group so only ones stabbing my back will be my gellow players… god damn area of effect attacks spamming friendly fire enthustiac artillery *bleep*ers…
Is there a front-liner that gets evasion? I feel like you need evasion.
Evasion, good save bonuses and/or resistance to magic, alternatively ability to silence mages and disarm alchemists at will would do just as well.
I fo get the idea that a squishy non front liner wants to make sure they’ll be safe but to cast a sleep spell in middle of melee and hit not only enemy but the guys trying to keep you safe is prime example why people don’t like mages.
Is Antipaladin still clinging to his evil-powered class features? Paladin got cut off from his, but Antipaladin seems no worse for wear.
Also, Magus looks like she’s got a hunk-crush, given how close she’s clinging to him. Bounty Hunter might get jealous.
As for Magus clinging to AP, that could be an “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”-thing.
Beegs and Gestalt got Magus dead to rope her team into delivering Thief for the Abyssal Blood Covenant, and AP betrayed Beegs, which allowed for the ritual to be disrupted.
Also, he’s a good man to have on your side in a scrap: he’s brave and loyal, so long as he’s treated well.
I wouldn’t read that much into it. Magus seems like the kind of person to randomly start rubbing against people affectionately when they least expect it, without even acknowledging it afterwards.
…maybe it’s just the cat ears.
Maybe, like a cat, she likes to mark her turf – including people – with her scent.
I’m pretty sure her scent is “electrical burn.”
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/nova
Say what you want about Magus, but she’s no coward.
Foolishly overconfident? Sure. But never a coward.
Unless big dogs are involved.
Our Mummy’s Mask game had a player swap through a character quite a few times.
First, their male Ascetic oracle died early on to a mimic-like monster – but luckily they saved up money for an early-game reincarnate, albeit becoming female in the process.
Then they had the character, through an arrangement with an Efreet, become a Catfolk, in an attempt to return to their original form.
Then they died in later dungeon from a Destruction spell. As there was no hope of reviving them this time, they were temporarily replaced by a fey Kineticist we found in the same dungeon.
When we finished the dungeon, a Shabti Life Oracle (essentially an ‘afterlife scapegoat’) of the Destruction-killed character showed up and replaced the temporary fey character, sticking around to finish the campaign.
In the same game, another player cycled from a Tiefling Bard (who died once, but was revived) to a strong-but-daft Orc Barbarian. This changed the dynamic from having two strong martials (gunslinger + samurai) with very powerful damage/hit buffs, to having three martials.
I feel like the male > female > catgirl progression may stray ever so slightly in the direction of a certain golden-hued forest.
https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1165910-dungeons-and-dragons
For people considering party dynamics and what roles one might fulfill in a party in Pathfinder 1e, there’s a handy tool/site that can help balance out party needs: https://teystar.github.io/pathparty/
Neat! Ima let my megadungeon folks know about this one. Very often they’ll have to replace a 4th party member with someone who has actually made it to game that day, and it could be interesting to see what this spits out in those scenarios.
At the risk of disserting the frog and killing the joke todays strip makes me real happy.
Antipaladin asking how dubious the dubiously moral murders are with the implication that he might be unwilling if they aren’t dubious enough rather than if they are too dubious like Inquisitor would expect is exactly my kind of understated dry humor.
I sometimes worry that this comic falls on the unfunny side. Glad to hear that it works for ya!
I mean, it was them, the Anti-Party (Who got a Paladin shaped hole right now), or him finding the large amount of partyless adventurers (No, not you Gunslinger sit back down) to make his own.
I do find it funny that the “All Girl party” has gone from Team Bounty Hunter to Team Evil. Anti-Paladin controls the… ability to be all of one chromosome (Before you ask bout Team Dragon, they got X and Y chromosomes)
Antipaladin is the queenmaker of this game.
I have to say, Ranger squealing over Patches in the background is just adorable.
Rest assured that she’s doing so silently.
Are we sure it’s silent? Or just outside our range of hearing? We can’t hear dog whistles either…
well she was brought up by wolves. so both of the above suit her.
-i think the only line i ever seen her say was calling out for Magus to help them Vs the beholder. aka laser cat tag. (https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/frickin-laser-beams then again that silhouette could have been anyone)
Funny story. The script for that one gives the line (much more appropriately) to Inquisitor. Neither one of us caught it before it went live though, making Ranger’s first (but not only) line an error.
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/unmute
i always assumed that this specific beholder was a special sub-type specialized in mental tricks (laser included) which had a mind to body switching rays, so while magus was playing laser-tag the other two got scrambled…
When my son and my nephew were both in elementary school, they asked me to create a D&D campaign for them. They rolled their own characters, but (with minor tweaking) they were essentially handed the same character: Legolas as identical cousins. The initial concept was that they *were* identical to everyone’s eyes but their own, since the two blond boys playing them were of similar height. Everything “elf-y” they had in spades and to an identical degree: longsword, longbow, spear, leaf armor, etc.
Quickly, though, even though their major equipment, clothing, and descriptions matched, their differing play styles and RP choices led them down different paths, until by level 4 I had modded and prodded and tweaked the PCs to suit the boys and made them into two *very* different teammates: Elf 1) Chaotic Neutral–impulsive, violent, minimum weight, high Strength “sword & board” specialist with magic longsword & shield; Elf 2) Lawful Good–reflective, calculating, max. weight, high Dex., master archer with magic bow and trick arrows.
The running gag now became that any elves (and most half-elves) could see that these two were only superficially alike, but that all *other* races in this Human-centric kingdom referred to them as “the elf twins” and couldn’t tell them apart.
Kind of makes me wonder what would happen if you repeated the experiment with a party of experienced players. Everyone starts with a Legolas clone, then we see how they grow and change according to player personality.
Since Oathbreaker cut ties with not-Lolth did he un-fall? Is he Oath of Conquest now or something?
First off: “Cahrlie’s Angels”. Let’s move on.
Best example I can think of is Kazune, an aristocratic scion turned cleric. He had a tragic backstory, about how he and a bunch of his friends were abandoned in a dragon graveyard and most of them were killed; then play started and he slowly became the straight man trying to wrangle the party into some semblance of order for the Lord’s Alliance.
The DM was actively trying to tie in any backstory elements he could from our PCs, and mine came relatively late in the campaign. Long after Kazune had completed his transition to beleaguered party leader, the party ran into the guide who abandoned him and his friends. What followed was a brief conversation that didn’t end up having much impact. This wasn’t just because Kazune had changed (it had been long enough since writing the backstory that, if I’d ever had something in mind for this kind of meeting, I’d forgotten it), but it didn’t help.
Another time I made a Megumin-like fireball-loving sorcerer who didn’t end up nearly as trigger-happy as I’d originally imagined—fireballing the party barbarian (along with the enemies she’s fighting) is only fun so many times. I think he went out on a high note, though—fireballing the party after being blinded, fleeing the battle, and coming back at just the right time to think the party rogue and barbarian had killed the rest of the party to rob them (the monsters killed them, but my sorcerer wasn’t there to see…hear it).
Of course, most of the time DMs won’t (or practically can’t) tie in character backstories. So I usually don’t put too much effort into it, unless I’m trying to build an entire backstory out of references to one obscure Greek myth or something. This makes it harder to notice when my characters drift from my original intent, because I usually don’t define my intent that well
Fuck
> Of course, most of the time DMs won’t (or practically can’t) tie in character backstories.
I think it’s important to build a backstory that ties into a campaign premise. You may have heard me talk about my admiration for Paizo’s adventure path player guides before. They allow exactly this kind of info to pass to the players up front, and I wish more homebrew GMs made similar moves.
It would be nice! But it obviously takes a good bit of work to make a lite player guide to your campaign, and homebrewing an entire campaign is already a lot of work. And while the player guides are helpful, there’s only so much they can do without spoiling the entire plot of the adventure path.
Part of the problem is, of course, that a tabletop campaign effectively has a bunch of different authors, who are also the audience, which means that some information about the story structure needs to be concealed until the proper time. You can’t pull off an “I am your father” moment without a conveniently orphaned PC whose player is fine with the DM (re)writing part of their backstory.
Theoretically, if a DM had all the PC backstories before he started planning much of his campaign, he could weave them all into the main plot of the campaign. I’ve seen a couple campaign logs with DMs that seemed to do that! But I tried it once, and it’s harder than it looks. I’ve considered holding a session 0 where players brainstorm character backstories that actually align in some useful fashion, and then writing a campaign around whatever that is, but…well, probably not happening any time soon.
At the end of the day, it’s easier to build a storyline where any character can fill the protagonist roles without feeling out of place, which also doesn’t quite fit any of them. A one-size-fits-all sort of heroism. But this obviously has its weaknesses…
> At the end of the day, it’s easier to build a storyline where any character can fill the protagonist roles without feeling out of place, which also doesn’t quite fit any of them. A one-size-fits-all sort of heroism. But this obviously has its weaknesses…
That weakness is one of Laurel’s pet peeves. She hates feeling like a “fill in the blank hero.” If literally any schlub with class levels is just as good as your guy, what’s the point of doing all that character work?
This wasn’t so much that the character himself changed from what I envisioned, so much that the rest of the world’s view of him did. I had just joined a new group for the start of a campaign set in a modified warhammer fantasy world, with all the danger that implies. I decided to make a lore bard who was a bit of a arrogant fame obsessed dick, but had a heart of gold, with his main goal to become the worlds greatest musician. Cut to level 7, and he was the only member of the initial group that was still alive, with other peoples characters having died 1-3 times by then. In that time, a lot of stories had formed around the things the group did, such as releasing a curse from a inter dimensional black pyramid, and accidentally plague bombing a city due to poor plague vat disposal, though my character wasn’t actually involved in that latter one due to missing half of that session. As the only surviving member, my guy ended up at the center of a lot of these stories. It was then that one person decided their new character would be an evil fanboy of mine, to my characters dismay. This eventually ended up becoming a full blown cult which viewed my guy as a new rising chaos god against all the others with hundreds and maybe even a couple thousand members by around level 12 with my guy still managing to survive, but while my character didn’t actually mind the worship, he definitely didn’t like the less savory parts of said cult. Things would likely have ended up going further, with my character potentially even starting to gain powers from the worship as soon an entire city might have come to worship him at the conclusion of their current quest, along with some powerful psychics stronger then he actually was, but the campaign ended early due to personal reasons for others. Definitely interesting though, and I would have loved to see what happened.
I’ve never seen a campaign progress to the full-on “we’re gaining demigod status” phase, but it would be fun to see that mess all the way to its conclusion. Still, I imagine that starting out on that path is almost more interesting. I mean, what the heck kind of character becomes a chaos god? Answering that question is probably more fun than going all the way and bringing about the apocalypse.
Honestly, wasn’t really sure my guy would actually become a god or gain god abilties, or if a god just based on him and his exploits would form, but with a personality more fitting the cult. That would have been up to the gm. Also, it wasn’t so much planned as a group so much as just by that one player who made the evil fanboy, with the rest of us rolling with the results.
Does it count if i never knew what the character would be like from the very beginning lol ? since ive never done a game that didint start at lvl1, ive only ever done blank-slate characters with only extremely basic foundational goals/values and i always just kinda let the flow of the sessions dictates how he grows up
A gamer after my own heart!
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/wizard-quiz
I have a character who started off as a fairly standard rogue concept, who I gave a few occultist bits because it got her some neat abilities. Half a campaign later she turned out to have a connection to a trapped elder god and is now a very out of her depth priestess…
The funny thing is the GM hadn’t planned it either, it just fell out perfectly.
Elder gods, man… I mean, somebody in the party has to start dreaming of strange cities older than brooding Tyre or the contemplative Sphinx, or garden-girdled Babylon. It just happened to be you this time. 😛
She’s now trying to work out how to a)stop him from ending the world in revenge for being imprisoned and b) free him from said prison with a possible c)get him (and probably herself, lets be real) a therapist.
Some of these tasks may be easier than others.
I’d wish you Godspeed, but I’m not sure you want that in a Mythos game.
As you might imagine, Demon Lord Renki was a PC at one point.
I started the character as the party rogue and skill monkey with the intent to dual class into Shaman (we were playing 3e’s Oriental Adventures which was L5R by way of WotC) so I could do team support for our GM who was introducing the entire rest of the party to DnD for the first time.
After two sessions, it was abundantly clear I was going to need to go harder and take a far more active role in shaping the party’s success and failure rather than handling the work and letting them be the Big Damn Heroes. And this was further exacerbated by some calls that I wouldn’t make had I been in the GM seat (I tend to be a bit more forgiving overall because I feel character deaths grind the game to a total halt).
I don’t just CALL the character ‘Demon Lord Renki’ like it’s some sort of fantasy Yakuza boss title or something. Renki the rogue became an actual demon lord because of various shenanigans (mostly the GM’s, though the direction was more or less set by me… there was also a Deck of Many Things that everyone but myself drew from).
I’d say that qualifies as ‘not the direction I set out for.’
> As you might imagine, Demon Lord Renki was a PC at one point.
I kind of imagined that Demon Lord Renki was a bat familiar with delusions of grandeur. It might just be the familiar vibe though.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/the-owl-house/images/3/3e/King_-_Profile.png/revision/latest?cb=20200527234506
How did you feel about those GM calls shaping the character’s destiny? Were you OK with the change in direction, or did you feel like you’d been railroaded into something you didn’t want?
is changing from Longbow to X-Bow dramatic?
I designed P1e Hunter for an adaptive longbow but got a pretty cool X-bow* at level 1, so the points on STR might have been better spent on DEX and it’s going to cost me a lot in feats to get to more than 1 attack per round.
Also the shit I roll probably can’t be blamed on the gear, right?
* https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/relics/dignitys-barb-relic/
Here’s an item worth the rebuild! I’m sure you’d have done more damage with the bow. I’m also sure it would have been less fun.
with the crap I’m rolling it would certainly have been less fun…
as in: Double the nat 1 on the attack rolls.
Will anti-paladin get a makeover? Granted he will be the only guy on the team, but heavy-plate would looks off-place. Perhaps he ccould change to medium armor? 🙂
If you join a new party you need to fit into it 🙂
> Will anti-paladin get a makeover?
I want you to remember that you asked this question. Ominous music. Sinister laugh.
Let me guess, makeover like when a group of girl are having a sleepover and they put makeup on the brother of one of them 😛
Surprised Anti-Paladin didn’t join up with the Anti-Party. They have a naming theme going on there! Was it cause of Sorcerer’s involvement / relations?
Hmmm, is the term ‘Anti-Party’ still valid at this point? They’re not much of ‘polar opposites’ to the main party anymore. They’re more like a secondary group in a ‘West Marches’ kind of game.
> is the term ‘Anti-Party’ still valid at this point?
CONCEPTUAL FLEXIBILITY
Well, aside from the obvious situations where, as GM, I’ve had my NPCs’ development taken down a completely unexpected direction by meddling players, I’ve had my share of characters who went a bit astray. Here are a couple of the more notable ones:
– Skyspinner, tabaxi rogue. At the start of the campaign, she was a disgraced circus acrobat, too idealistic for her own good, looked up to the rest of the party and tended to get into trouble with the authorities. After months of play, she’d grown a lot more practical and level-headed, was the most respectable member of the party, the other PCs were answering to her, and she had enough influence to cause political reforms in every nation on the continent.
– Epnu, khenra bard/barbarian (from a Magic: the Gathering-based campaign). I originally created her as a comic relief character: She was a planeswalker from Amonkhet who assumed she was in the afterlife because her spark ignited just when she was about to be ceremonially killed by her goddess. Then when I fleshed out her backstory some more, I realised that her life was far more tragedy than comedy. I also didn’t originally envision her as parent material, but I ended up retroactively giving her children and having her adopt her two nieces as well, leading her to become a loving mother.
Did you wind up being “the serious one” both times just because none of the other players wanted that responsibility? Or do you think that you tend towards that style of character on your own?
With Skyspinner, the other players were definitely a factor since no one was stepping up to take responsibility. With Epnu, on the other hand, the rest of her group was already taking things seriously, so it was more her background and flaws being played for drama rather than for laughs; the others were still having to look out for her more than the other way around.
Right on. It’s an issue that I keep in mind for my own characters. I tend to prefer quirky characters rather than main-character types, and struggle every time I try to go for “the straight man” in a game. Thought it might have been the opposite for you.
It seems like every time I set out to play a “villainous” or at least “morally dubious criminal” character in a D&D game, it just works out at best as “murder hobo business as usual” or equally often “and GM’s unannounced immediate direction of this game requires me to pivot this character to be several degrees more heroic”. Or y’know… the game dies within a week. *shrug*
I’ve had better luck with Blades, but that’s probably because the game is designed in such a way as to *encourage* you to be amoral criminals, crazy cultists, drug addicted assassins, etc. Not that there isn’t room to be the good guys or “the good guys” if you want. You’re just less likely to have the GM’s expectations for viable character behavior to be wildly different than your own.
We talked about it way back when…
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/cartoon-villainy
…But I find cartoon villainy easier to pull off. Unless you have a major flaw that you don’t mind playing up (love of violence; merciless to beaten enemies; gets off on torture, etc.) the average adventure won’t naturally give you many chances to choose to be evil.
“Why would I just be a psycho? Wouldn’t that get me kicked out of the party / arrested?”
But if you don’t make those self-destructively evil decisions…
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/self-destructive-evil
…How else will you distinguish the character? In my mind, the answer is figuring out a “hobby.” Whether you extort or torture or take too much pleasure in killing, it’s all about picking something that you can do without the GM’s prompting session after session. Like the “rich inner life problem” we talked about back here…
https://www.handbookofheroes.com/archives/comic/self-perception
…It’s all about making your evil present at the table.
This has happened a couple times in games I’m in.
The big one that comes to mind is Wymond Dwerryhouse, the stout farm-boy-turned-hedge-knight paladin of Erastil I play in a group running through the Emerald Spire Superdungeon. He was originally a human and had a pig as a familiar who was supposed to turn out to be a disguised minor angel later in the campaign. Two things changed that majorly. The first was our group decided to switch rulesets from the 1st Edition of Pathfinder to the new 2nd Edition, meaning Wymond would lose the archetype that gave him a familiar, so we adapted Triath into Wymond’s mount-that-he-couldn’t-really-ride, complete with an in-character transformation from a simple farm pig to a battle-ready boar! The second thing was that not long after this change the party engaged in a battle that was frankly punching above our weight, and Wymond tragically did not survive. One trip to the surface later and Wymond returned to the world of the living as a dwarf thanks to reincarnate. We haven’t had much time since then to explore how Wymond’s handling this (especially since this is a very dungeon-crawly campaign in the first place), but I’d like to roleplay out him trying to figure out his new place in the world, as a dwarf who doesn’t really know how to dwarf.
Two ways to go with reincarnate. You either go the “All Fur” route and return dramatically to your true form…
https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm065.html
…Or you can learn to accept your new identity:
https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/p_brotherbear_herobanner_19881_78856a54.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C540%2C810
It’s always a fun tension figuring out which way you’ll go.
I did actually have this happen once; made a fairly daredevil rogue with trappings of gentleman thief (not the archetype, and Vigilante was new enough I opted for Rogue instead out of familiarity/playstyle preference) whose main flaw was she was a bit of an adrenaline junky and hothead. Then the first session resulted in a young orphan being used as slave labor for the starter villain managed several nat 20s at clutch moments against his captors that helped a ton, and hit it off with my character enough that she opted to adopt.
The end result is she ended up being much more cautious than she otherwise would’ve- it’s one thing to take a gamble when you’re the only one who’s got something to lose from it, it’s another when things going bad can re-orphan your adopted kid. She still leaned toward flippant optimism and aggressive and daring attacks (Scout archetype meant charging in for massive damage was a thing, and her Whip build made her great at tripping shmucks en masse once she got in/she could do a second charge and sucker punch the guy if she needed another free Sneak Attack in a pinch), but was a lot less YOLO about what she did in general.
Funny enough, “vigilante-who-works-as-a-thief” is Laurel’s character over in Crimson Throne. Her dude has also adopted a orphan, and the campaign has unexpectedly turned into a fantasy version of My Two Dads.
Funny enough, that’s literally the AP we were playing, lmao. Had Profession (Barrister) as her day job/cover and it made things interesting early thanks to some DM improvisation. Guess given the set up it’s hard not to have the heartstrings tugged when you see the kids and the situation they’re in.
Sadly the game ran out of steam about 4/5ths of the way in, and some of the group had a falling out meaning it likely won’t ever finish, but it was a blast while it lasted. I still have my back-up character pick for the game who the DM made an NPC and, as it turned out, would’ve had an amazingly good skill set for everything, so maybe one day I’ll get to give it another run and break out that character and see things For Want of a Nail.
COVID cost me an Italian vacation, a summer of teaching in Berlin, and a hefty chunk of mental health. But missing out on “7 Days to the Grave” was every bit as rough. The group voted not to do a plague-based storyline given the circumstances, and so we wound up replacing the whole book with “The Lady’s Light.” It’s fun, but I miss Korvosa.
I’m so happy Anti-Paladin has found a group that is more in line with his level of dubious morality.
For serious. Nothing quite as invigorating as trading out a toxic group for a healthy one.
Healthy in a social-dynamics sense, anyways—if we’re talking about what percentage of HP they usually have, this might be a step backwards.
(But as they say, the only hit point that matters is the last one!)
I’ve talked of her before, but my first PC ever, a Magus, underwent a lot of unplanned evolution over her campaign. She started off as an enthusiastic but reckless knight errant who had attacked a goblin fortress single-handedly and gotten captured for her trouble. (She was found and freed by the ongoing campaign’s party, thus beginning her story.) Early battles involved a lot of missing (including an infamous four-turn streak where I couldn’t roll over a 7) and she came within one failed grapple roll of an embarrassing death to a giant hermit crab. But over time I got a sense of Magus tactics and her efficiency went up dramatically. I invested in a number of atypical and unplanned strategies as she leveled up – learning the martial art Snake Style to make up for poor AC, unlocking emergency reserves of supernatural strength through a level of Bloodrager, gaining a Knowledge-focused aeon familiar through a cosmic mail-order catalogue. Her spells switched from more offensive to defensive, and as the campaign wore on and players left and joined, she moved from the naïve rookie to the team leader that others looked to to keep things together. She shifted from the party’s only martial weapon user to the party’s only real caster. Near the end, she embraced the faith of Milani, goddess of hope and revolution, and took a level of Cleric, gaining great reflexes and further boons for her teammates as she led from the middle rather than charge to the front.
I’ve never had another character grow so much in unexpected and delightful ways. I may never again, as a lot of that came out of me growing in familiarity with the system (and roleplaying games in general) and finding ad hoc solutions to problems found in the field, rather than planning things out with a high degree of confidence. But this Magus/Bloodrager/Cleric is definitely my favorite out of all of my characters, because of that journey. (Sorry Paladin/Oracle/Bloodrager/Swashbuckler/Ranger, you’re still my second-favorite!)
Hey, I remember you talking about that character! I really do that that part of the trick with Magus is avoiding combat in the early levels. The magus in my megadungeon campaign would actually start most combats with a friggin’ bow until level 3. That’s when the build seems to find enough staying power to “turn on.”
For your character specifically though, I really do think that there’s a special alchemy that happens when you’re learning a game. The pieces start to mesh together as you go, and you’re playing with the system right at the edge of your competency. There’s no more thrilling time to fall in love with crunch.
I actually started with the Magus at Level 3, so that was nice. (A Level 1 Magus is just a Rogue who can Sneak Attack once or twice a day – they don’t even have spellstrike yet.) My big issue was that I went for a STR/CON build and at that time only had light armor proficiency to go with my 12 DEX. Being totally new, I was like “15 AC sounds pretty good” because I didn’t have a sense of the numbers yet. I don’t entirely regret my stat choice (I only survived the aforementioned giant crab encounter because of my 16 CON, which buys you a lot of room for mistakes) but it did cause some problems when I was also always charging into melee.
In my experience (which is mostly that) it’s really Level 4 where the Magus activates – 2nd-level spells plus Spell Recall to let them cast much more freely. That’s when you start getting the Shocking Grasps once a round instead of once a battle.